Talk:Thel 'Vadam

Bungie
Bungie acknowledges him as Thel 'Vadam in the blog: http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid19079

"Ascendant Justice published a new article examining the origins of Thel 'Vadam, better know to most as The Arbiter."

Event though it was decided on Halopedia that it was him, im just showing some new evidence so that we can be completely sure.

The blog post was about this: http://blog.ascendantjustice.com/thel-page-one/ FishType1 21:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Just goes to show that Halopedia is on the cutting edge of canon information.

Supreme Commander Picture
There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to apBold textpear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?


 * In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to Succor, it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --Dragonclaws(talk) 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

the arbiter isnt the supreme camander of the ascendant justice hes just a ship master before he becomes the arbiter.its in the books.


 * Actually, he IS the Supreme Commander. Its in the games. --  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  01:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * And not to mention, at the end of the book you speak of, he's promoted Supreme Commander.

Plot Point
Anyone else think that this line from the Heretic Elite action figure could be relevant to Halo 3? Once more taking up the colors of their homeworld, they must seek allies amongst enemies, and strength from the very Arbiter of their doom. Hubert Cumberdale 19:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you think it could mean? -ED 04:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be a draw. If you read Halo: First Strike the Master Chief fights with (possibly) the Arbiter on the Bridge of the Ascendant Justice. And the MC only won that because the Elite (I said Elite because it may not be the Arbiter so it is easier to generalise) because he slipped on his own helmet and the MC got 2 Marines (Johnson and Locklear) to unload nearly 2 clips of AR ammo into him. And your comment on the Engineers ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ is more about the shield strength than the actual armour itself, as Dr Halsey says in Halo: Fall of Reach that the MJOLNIR shields were an improved version of the shields that the Jackals (and therefore presumably the elites) use. Unsey 16:54 23 August 2007

active cam
Anyone find it weird that the arbiter, one of the highest ranking elites, has only a 6 second active cam. While other covenent memebers, even some grunts, have an indefinate active cam.
 * As it says in the article, the Arbiter wears ceremonial armor, which is a bit outdated but still necessary because it is a ceremonial tradition. -- ED ( talk )(gaming) 00:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but if every Arbiter dies in the line of service would it not be logical to assume the armor could not be recovered everyItalic text. With every new Arbiter I would think new armor would be needed or old armor repaired either which would provide opportunity to upgrade and improve with the times.

actually after an arbiter dies in the line of service the covenent atack the area where he died then retrieve the armor and repair it.

Umm...no. How would they retrieve Ripa 'Moramee's armor?Papayaking 17:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They didn't. - Lord Hyren 19:54, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding previous ranks
I think I got the whole rank thing figured out (but I could be way off):


 * 1) His rank at the time of the Battle of Alpha Halo was Supreme Commander.
 * 2) When Halo was destroyed, the higher ups demoted him to Zealot before deciding his fate.
 * 3) "Convicted" of heresy, stripped of his rank completely.
 * 4) Commissioned to Arbiter status.

Any comments? KWSN 05:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree -Spartan-016 19:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I you are a most wise worrior Kre &#39;Nunumee 19:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Gee, "worrior"? and well, the rank thing is common knowledge ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 11:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Either take the compliment or don't.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 23:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Your fight that has transpired seems strange and utterly pointless. Who replies in such a way???

Nerds like me, who know too much about everything we know. Spartan Andy-012

Involvement in Halo Wars
In a Bungie Weekly Update, Frankie mentioned that there's a side of the Arbiter that hasn't yet been revealed. Graeme Devine claims that Halo Wars will feature a great Bond-villain-style antagonist. Of course, his wording causes nausea to real fans, but; the Arbiter was a zealot while he was in command of the Fleet of Particular Justice; he's made thousands of personal kills. He was adamant about continuing his campaign against the humans in The Heretic. In Halo Wars, the Covenant is at its most "evil", of course, this means at their most savage. Could the future Arbiter have been the soon-to-appear Halo Wars villain? We don't know how long he was the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, so, isn't it possible? It's not like Mr. Devine would just create an out-of-Covenant-character-villain ,(they're not evil, just mislead), unless he was someone people would definitely be interested in, right? And people would definitely be interested in the Arbiter as a bad guy. --Braidenvl 21:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

That is a very good thought, set about 20 yearsback the arbiter is probably fighting the humans, but there is a problem with that theory because alot can change in 20 years. If he is tstill the supreme commander then it would be probable that he could be a covenant ship leader like Captain cutter aboard The Spirit Of Fire. But age is another problem, how old would he be in the Halo Wars era? To young to be a fleet master. Would he even be in the war? Probably, as a lowley rank but that would be fun to fight the arbiter, my faveorite character. What would be cool is to have heros like in Age of Mythology, for the UNSC Master Chief (or some other badass spartan) and the covenant a arbiter (it dosent have to be the Halo 3 arbiter, a diffrent one) -X Gauz x 07:04, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. I really don't see age as much of a factor, as Sangheili have awesome über-physiques, in addition to two hearts, which, in my opinion, would make Elites quite long-lived by human standards. As for your proposal of AoM-esque heroes, that's a very cool concept, (along-side, let's say, Truth, Rtas, Tartarus, Chief, Johnson, and maybe Cap'n Keyes, although Cutter is already a Navy leader for the UNSC.) Another Arbiter would be cool, too, but many fans would be disappointed by him not being the Arbiter. --Braidenvl 23:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

What'd I say!?! An Arbiter in Halo Wars! Yeah! I's not the former, or rather, future Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, but an Arbiter nonetheless! --Braidenvl 18:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see where the logic is here.... Thel was made arbiter in Halo 2 2552..... Halo Wars is 20 or so years before that

i agree i think this is where the other guys head blows up from said logic being in conflict with their own personal opinions on whatever this conversation used to be.

Supreme Commander Picture
There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to appear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?


 * In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to Succor, it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --Dragonclaws(talk) 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Name Discussion
Can we be sure Thel Vadamee is for sure the Arbiter? Sure, he was given the command of a ship in the fleet of Particular Justice, but it never said command of the entire fleet. And to be honest, if you read the book, Thel had a completely different personality.

It's possible, but I am not convinced. If you have more evidence of this, tell me.

-Taco033.

I agree with Taco. While the revelations of The Cole Protocol are exciting to say the least, at this point there is nothing conclusive to confirm this assumption. I think we should rethink sticking a name to the Arbiter so brashly. Elites never appreciated people foolishly throwing names around.

Picaflor 22:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

When was his name revealed to be Thel 'vadamee? Omega117 06:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Halo: The Cole Protocol -- Councillor  Specops306  -  Kora   'Morhek  06:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But from reading it, I did not find any concrete evidence that it is actually the same character. Such can be inferred, but still, I did not find any concrete evidence that shows that they are the same character. User0(contribs)(talk) 07:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Have you finished the book?  1st Class   Cadet   ONI recon 111  | [[Image:1227612553 First3.jpg|30px]] 07:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. The problem is that I saw this page before I finished it, so I wasn't really looking for anything that proves it. It is very likely that I missed something big. The only thing I saw that might infer that it is the same character is the stuff about the fleet of Particular Justice. User0(contribs)(talk) 21:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't even get the book yet and it's up here,Thel 'Vadam,that just doesn't sound true,I don't belive it. Anyone got some proof?

It's not explicitly stated, however it is strongly implied and it is obvious he is the Arbiter, otherwise why would they include him in the book? Why give him the rank of ship master and put him in the book in the fleet of particular justice? 161.130.147.160 19:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

To establish a sense of continuity, using a pre-existing fleet to throw him into?

Having read the book, I didn't see any evidence that Thel and the Arbiter are one and the same.--Hawki 07:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Wait, if his last name is now 'Vadam, does that mean he's Halfjaw's brother/father/cousin/other family member?--macman392 2:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Halfjaw is Vadum, not Vadam. I'm sure how much difference that makes, whether its just a type or a completely different clan.-- Councillor  Specops306  -  Qur'a   'Morhek  19:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It said he was given command of a ship, not the entire fleet. Besides, Bungie may want the Arbiter to stay the Arbiter. I mean, look, they neither confirmed nor denied the Chief's name till the end of Halo 3, so maybe they want the Arbiter to stay "faceless" to make him easier to believe that you fulfill his role.


 * Well, actually we've known since The Fall of Reach that his name is John. I do think that we've just seen the beginning of the Supreme Commander's career, and its not inconceivable that he rises through the ranks. I have yet to read the novel, so beyond that I don't have input. -- Councillor  Specops306  -  Qur'a   'Morhek  08:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

We've renamed the page to Thel 'Vadamee, as per Halo: The Cole Protocol. But his current title is Arbiter. We have Rtas 'Vadum, since the character removed the 'ee' suffix. Since the character was stripped of his name, I believe we should again rename the article back to Arbiter. -- Councillor  Specops306  -  Qur'a   'Morhek  07:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If we changed it back, then that would mean renaming the Unnamed Arbiter article as to not cause any mistakes. Rtas 'Vadum was his original name before joining the covenant. Also, "Arbiter" was the unnofficial name. It makes more sence to keep it with his name. We moved "Master Chief" to John-117. If we changed this page back to Arbiter (Character)... other people who read the book would be highly likely to change it back.Forerunner 19:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

But shouldn't it be Thel 'Vadam, without the ee, because he is not part of the Covenant during Halo 3, like R'tas 'Vadum. I say we change it to Thel 'Vadam, and ignore the people who want the old name back, they just cannot cope with news... *rolleyes* --Lord Lycan 03:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The Arbiter has had his entire name stripped from him, rather than just renouncing the 'ee' at the end. That's the point I'm trying to make. It is certainly not because I "just cannot cope with news," the suggestion of which I find deeply offensive. My suggestion was made for accuracy, not because I have a particular opinion or agenda to push. -- Councillor  Specops306  -  Qur'a  'Morhek  23:01, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. F.h. - Flood Beware!


 * I don't think the title should be changed, but I think all the references to Thel in Halopedia should be changed to "Arbiter" because Master Chief's name is John, but he is referred to as Master Chief rather than John. Bioniclepluslotr  15:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I haven't read the cole protocol yet and i really want to be sure that thel vadamee is the arbiter can someone give me any evidence.( " crosses his fingers and says please be the arbiter please be the arbiter").Snore 03:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't this brash? Picaflor 00:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

There wouldn't really be a reason for them to mention the fleet or Thel in particular unless it had significant to the main plot, except to create a reason for all the things Thel did, rather than keep the reader going 'what the hell, what happened, why's he all scabby, who burned him?" But still, as for the attitude difference, I didn't see any difference. Arbiter is a big bad shangheili who feels that the loss of his honor has left him worse than dead, and Thel is a big bad sangheili who would do anything to retain his honor, I don't see a difference. Until conclusive evidence surfaces, we should either leave it as is, or an admin should should lock it down so no one can move it, if that's possible. Until then, every one just shut the hell up, there's nothing left to say except 'agree' or 'disagree'.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 23:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Guys this could be the halo wars arbiter we could of completly misunderstood.

OK, also 'it could be the halo wars arbiter.' Regardless, you do have a point, but I personally rather doubt it.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 20:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The Halo Wars one has distinct features that Thel doesn't have like weird mandibles and weird shoulders. And Thel was only just made the Arbiter, so he obviously isn't. FishType1 17:41, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

"I'm going to sum up my entire argument here. Thel, the character within the Cole Protocol, is not the Arbiter from Halo Wars, for those who haven't checked out the Unnamed Arbiter page. I have a feeling he is not our main hero, the Arbiter, from Halo 3 either. I can reason this because of the following:

1. Thel is extremely zealous. The Arbiter, even in his appearance in The Graphic Novel, was reasonable with Rtas and had a more moderate feeling. Although the Arbiter only said five or so lines in the Graphic Novel, I reason he is fairly moderate and follows the Covenant with reason and ideas and not blind faith. 2. Thel was given command of a ship and not the entire Fleet of Particular Justice. Although he could've gained rank, it cannot be assumed. Assumptions must have basis in solid fact, which Thel as the Arbiter does not. 3. The Arbiter seems to care for the Elites in the Halo games, whereas Thel has the knack for killing his own men and sending them to die.

To sum this all up, I don't believe we should make a large assumption. I would like to see Thel having his own page until solid fact confirms he is the Arbiter."

-Taco033

'Vadam not 'Vadamee
Shouldn't the article name and present version of his name be Thel 'Vadam? Like all other Elites he split from the Covenant, no longer in the Covenant millitary taking away the ee at the end of each last name. He's Vadamee in Cole Protocol, but at the most advancement of the story he is known as 'Vadam.


 * no. At the most advancement of the story (judging you mean the end of halo 3, not the trailers) he is known as the Arbiter.Forerunner 02:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but "Arbiter" is not his given Elite name. He is not referred as Thel during the game but he would still technically be Thel 'vadam. Much like the Spec Ops Commander loses the two e's in his name. It doesn't make any sense when we name the Half Jaw Article without the 2 e's but the Arbiter one with them. Oh and I forgot to sig --Halofighter92 20:24, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thel was forcibly given up his rights. He lost his right to bear the ee and his entire name. If this article were to be renamed anything...it would be Arbiter!Forerunner 20:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Really, he had to give up his name? Where in the games does it...oh wait, yeah that's right, the games are shit for canon. Yes, he's the current Arbiter, but what about the one in Halo Wars? What's he going to be, Arbiter 2? Since the Sangheili gave away the military "ee" suffix on their lastnames, and the current Arbiter is a Sangheili....he's name is Thel 'Vadam. [[Image:United Nations logo.png|35px]] General  Tony ,  Administrator of Halopedia  Talk  12/22/2008


 * Arbiter is a rank, not a name, so we wouldn't rename it to that, so we use his previous name.  1st Class   Cadet   ONI recon 111  | [[Image:1227612553 First3.jpg|30px]] 21:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Shield Strength
I just want to know how much shield and armor strength the Arbiter armor has? I mean in halo 2 they made it equilivent to the master chief's for gameplay reasons. But in Halo 3 the Arbiter's shield and armor strength vary depending on difficulty. I would say it's either normal of heroic. Normal because it seems most realistic strength wise and heroic because Bungie seems to like that difficulty as the way Halo is meant to be played. So any thoughts?Snore 03:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the shields that Thel has in Halo 3 has the correct strength. Bungie had to make his shield strength the same as the Chief's in Halo 2 so that gameplay can be fair. --Ultra Force 16:46, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Life as Kaidon
The section is absolute crap. Can someone with a book please groom through it and make it actually understandable, then remove the template?

Is Thel really the Supreme Commander/Arbiter?
I finished The Cole Protocol about a week ago, and I took the ending as meaning that Thel became one of the shipmasters of the fleet. There's no indication that he was the one who became Supreme Commander, is there? Sith Alchemy 101 11:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

It implies it strongly. There are also some sections that when you read them, its almost as if they're shouting it out to you. FishType1 21:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "Implied" and "confirmed" are two very different ideas. At this point, the idea that Thel Vadam is the Arbiter is fan speculation. However, because the Wikia isn't treating it as speculation, it has become fan fiction. SinisterSamurai 16:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

It's also fan speculation to say that he is not. Spec Ops  Commander   Spartansniper  4  50  20:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I look at it this way: 'The Cole Protocol' takes place around 15 years before Halo 1. That is plenty of time for Thel to get promoted to Supreme Commander and thus become the Arbiter of Halo 2/3. Also, if Thel is not meant to be the Arbiter, why bother telling us what fleet he became a part of at the end? If you notice, we weren't even told what fleet he was a part of during the story itself. Zeno &#39;Ribal 21:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Height
the page says 8'6" however with the Halo Wars limited Edition the info cars say he's 8'1" ... also 7 years old..90.241.27.63 23:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you have the wrong Arbiter, man. Smoke My pageMy talk 01:28, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Cole Protocol Destroyed the image of the Arbiter
I read the Cole Protocol, and i refuse to beleive that honour-obsessed Elite in the book is the Arbiter. The Arbiter did beleive in honor, i admit, but Thel was obsessed. The arbiter was kinder, and knew right and wrong. There is no way the psychopath in Cole Protocol is the Arbiter. Timetogo309 18:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm still a little skeptical as to whether or not Thel actually is the Arbiter. I know there are strong implications, but there doesn't seem to be anything solid. If he is the Ariter, then I guess you could say that the Arbiter became more compassionate as time went by. If not, all the better for you. Sith Alchemy 101 22:40, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * So we aren't even sure that Thel 'Vadam is his name, though the entire article says it is? Is Halopedia a fanon wiki or something? --Odie5533 20:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * All evidences pointed out to Thel being the Arbiter.- 5 ub7 ank (7alk ) 20:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * As not everyone has a copy of all the Halo books (me included), could you please cite a few representative passages that make it completely clear to everyone that Thel 'Vadam is indeed the arbiter. Thanks. --Odie5533 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's the big one: (from pg 349) '"The Fleet of Particular Justice?" Lak 'Vadamee asked. The old Sangheili walked along the keep's walls with Thel. Thel hada new shipmaster's cloak that tugged and kicked at him in the cold mountain wind. "I have never heard of it."
 * "It is a new reorganization of the fleets. Against the Sangheili Councilor's desires. They have given me a cruiser to command within this fleet."'
 * And this passage from page 342 I consider foreshadowing of his later fall: 'This mission was over, and Thel was grateful. He wanted a ship to command that was part of a fleet, not off on it's own. But leading a mission, away from the Prophets where his decisions could or could not risk their wrath...Thel 'Vadamee never wanted to be in that position again.' Zeno &#39;Ribal 00:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you please explain the quotes, and how they show that Thel is the commander that chased the Pillar of Autumn to Installation 04 and later became the arbiter? --Odie5533 04:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, for the first quote,some of this I mentioned in another comment elsewhere on the page. First off, that the author bothered to mentioned that Thel was now a part of ‘The Fleet of Particular Justice’ is telling, especially considering that the author did not even mention the name of the Fleet was in before (that I remember, I could be wrong here). Second, if Thel was not to be the Arbiter, why bother mentioning that fleet at all? Third, this story takes place around 15 years prior to Halo 1, plenty of time for Thel to get promoted to Supreme Commander and thus ‘be’ the one that chases the Pillar of Autumn.
 * For the second quote: In the book, Thel nearly got himself executed because he had to make decisions on his own without the guidance of the Prophets (Regret and Truth had conflicting objectives, Thel was operating under Regret, while Truth had his own machinations going on that directly conflicted with Regret’s plan). The future Arbiter, ended up in a similar situation (found the first Halo, but ended up helpless as MC managed to destroyed it), got into big trouble for it, was branded and made the Arbiter. If that ain’t foreshadowing…I don’t know what is.Zeno &#39;Ribal 05:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for explaining it. The first one seems rather weak; yes, he is a cruiser commander in the fleet, but he isn't the supreme commander. The second one is a bit better in foreshadowing, but it's still just speculation on foreshadowing. Is there no official quote in the bungie weekly updates or something that better proves he is the arbiter? --Odie5533 06:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally I haven't seen anything as such. Then again I don't honestly believe Bungie would come out and actually tell us something like that. As such, we can only go by what 'has' been released to us. Either way, unless Bungie comes out with something that contradicts this, I will continue to strongly believe that Thel is the Arbiter based on what I have read, as it seems logical to me. Zeno &#39;Ribal 15:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That it is logical is debatable. And the fact that it is debatable means it is speculation on our part. Unless it is a complete fact, it can't be asserted without being considered speculation. --Odie5533 16:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a safe assumption IMO though, as there is no actual evidence that states Thel 'isn't' the Arbiter: only evidence that supports him being the Arbiter . It's not like how it was when people were still thinking the Arbiter was Orna 'Fulsamee (dispite the clear evidence that he is not!).Zeno &#39;Ribal 16:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Argument from ignorance --Odie5533 09:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So basically you are calling anyone that believes Thel is the Arbiter based on what little evidence we have to be an idiot then. How nice. Should more information come out on Thel, I will (can't speak for anyone else here, though I am sure they would too) reevaluate my stance on the matter. Until then, we can only go with what we have. Zeno &#39;Ribal 16:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No. The argument from ignorance is a common logical fallacy and it often takes an outside to point out that it is occurring. Simply because there is not evidence against him being the arbiter does not imply that he is. Yes, in the fan world we'd consider he is the arbiter. But from H:NOT, this place is not for fan speculation; it is for known facts about the Halo world. When I cite the argument from ignorance I am not saying you, or anyone, is an idiot. Please do not take it that way as it was not my intent. --Odie5533 23:42, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I get what you're saying, however some things we may 'never' get confirmation on. We got lucky with Rtas when they revealed his name in the Graphic Novel (and even then it wasn't within the story itself, but the intro). Actual names for popular characters on the Covenant side are rarely revealed, so can you blame us for jumping at any information that may even 'hint' at the true identity of one of them? *points at the feasco around Ripa* Zeno &#39;Ribal 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia:WP:NOR anyone? Perhaps it would be better to split the article into Arbiter (character) and Thel 'Vadam, and then post that so-and-so (preferably a reliable source) said that the two are possibly the same. It seems like this is pure speculation, and quite possibly wrong from what I've read. If you guys accept fanon speculation here, then leave it as is. --Odie5533 21:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * H:NOT WE ARE NOT WIKIPEDIA. Kthnxbai.
 * Thanks for the link, though your all caps and insulting "kthnxbai" are not appreciated. Might I direct you to H:NOT point 1.1 and 1.2 ("Halopedia is not a fanfiction site" and "Halopedia is not a speculative forum"). A number of Halopedians consider the association between the two as speculation and for good reason. --Odie5533 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait...Thel, in Cole Protocol wasn't a psychopath...mercy killing your friend who is unable to do anything and wishes to die... ALL Sangheili were honour-mad. The other killing was to an attempted-assassin. He believed in honour, but he wasn't a psychopath.Forerunner 21:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, some people seem to assume elites are like humans, which they are NOT. Whining that an alien race isn't basically a human with a costume on isn't going to change anything.Papayaking 17:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Humans also mercy-killed, though usually under more... mortally-wounded... circumstances. [[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] DavidJCobb  18:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah...I don't think we mercy-killed because some guy hurts his leg. (Random guy 1: "Ow I twisted my ankle!" Random guy 2 stabs his head with a sharp stick.)Papayaking 01:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

please
Ban User:70.131.66.248 for vandalizing the page.--Jack Black 18:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Finally some proof!
"There are those who said this day would never come. What are they to say now?"

- Specops306

An interview with the author by a French Halo community, where the Arbiter is referred to numerous times as Thel Vadam, and Buckell fully accepts that, and even admits it was fun to characterize the Arbiter. So finally, some indisputable proof for the naysayers! -- ' Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek ''  Honour Light Your Way! ''' 20:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * * Cues the happy end theme to Return of the Jedi. *


 * Would it be good if you add the forum thread as a reference somewhere within the article? -- Drtomjenkins 02:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, that's good enough for me. Sith Alchemy 101 23:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

OMG YOU ARE SERIOUS YES LETS NOW END WORLD HUNGER ......I am a downer thank you Alertfiend 09:47, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Main Quote
I found a quote during my latest reread of The Cole Protocol that, IMO, fits Thel better than the one currently up.

From page 228: "It is a poor soldier who insists on seeing things not as they are, but as he wants them to be. One day reality hits, and his illusions fail him, and he dies stupidly. What honor is there in that?"

Then again, I AM just a n00b here, so I'm just going to defer to the more senior Halopedians' judgement on this. Dinosaur bob 15:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * 'Ey, guys, I think this one's pretty good. [[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] DavidJCobb  18:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Aribter Mod
Does anyone know how to do that Naked Arbiter Mod in Halo 2 that that one guy used to get the images of the elite anatomy? Teh lolz! Bionicle+Lotr  22:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Arby starts out without the armor, in the cutscene, I think... I would assume that you'd mod it to cancel the cutscene, and then just never grab the armor? [[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] DavidJCobb  03:56, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * But wouldn't that just skip the cutscene and do nothing to how the Arbiter actually looks in gameplay? Teh lolz! Bionicle+Lotr  21:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait, no, I'm wrong. In the Trivia for The Heretic, it says:
 * "By using modding tools, it is possible to see the Master Chief hidden behind one of the pillars above the Councilors. This is due to the fact that Bungie needed to place an avatar in cutscenes to allow for the AI, thus making cut scenes "unplayable" game play."
 * I think they might have also done that for The Arbiter. I mean, think about it: if they couldn't use the Arbiter as the "avatar" in The Heretic, why would they be able to use him in The Arbiter. The other clue? The existing picture of the unarmored Arbiter is taken from the third person, and shows him attacking. Here's what I think they did:
 * In Halo 2 Vista, they modded The Arbiter so that they start as Master Chief in a different location, and modded the unarmored Arbiter to have the AI of a typical Elite enemy. Then, they walked up to him and hit Print Screen as he began to flip out. Simple. [[Image:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] DavidJCobb  02:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Comic
Does anyone know of the internet comic series about Thel and Rtas attack on a brute Chiftain?--Hunter on Steriods 00:57, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you mean 'A Sangheili's War is Never Done'? If so, that is fanfiction and thus non-canon. If not, well, I don't know of any other internet comic like that. Zeno &#39;Ribal 01:11, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Height changes
Can you at least post here for discussion before changing the height instead of randomly changing it?  Smoke Sound off! 17:42, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * I vote we change his height to 7'10", as per the Encyclopedia. After all, we had no definitive information on his official height previously. However, I noticed that most of the Sangehili heights are still using the old 8'6" scale, despite previous reconing. If we are to keep the 8'6" base scale regardless, then Thel's height should be changed to 9'. Zeno &#39;Ribal 18:05, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * If it's in the Encyclopedia, then by all means, change it. Just say something when you do it (either here, or in the edit summary itself) so no one suspects false information or abuse of the points system. This will also prevent edit-warring.  Smoke Sound off! 18:07, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * Added the weight and reference. Zeno &#39;Ribal 18:18, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Umm, their height is seven foot cause they crouch, when Thel mocks the enemy he is taller then John, Combat height is 7'2, height for real, 8 something.--Lekgolo 18:59, December 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Their avg height has been retconned to 7'4" per Halo Encyclopedia. Thel is 7'10" standing straight up, which would account for him being taller then MC (whom is 7' in his armor). Zeno &#39;Ribal 19:44, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Huh, thanks.--Lekgolo 23:51, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Thel 'Vadam or Thel 'Vadamee
In the article, he is still referred to as Thel 'Vadamee even after "Vadamee was stripped of his rank, title, name and honor, and branded a heretic for failure in safeguarding Halo." Is this a typo or an error? Killerbreadbug72

Arbiter's color glitch
This happened to me only once, but in the level quarantine zone the arbiter turns red and I don't know how I did that. I have some screen screenshots if you want them. SUPERSYLUX 18:27, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Can I please see some? The other day, while playing a team match, I became "white team"... I don't know how. --Fluffball Gato 23:30, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Here are the links:

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/File:Halo2_2010-02-16_19-11-05-68.jpg

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/File:Halo2_2010-02-16_19-11-25-79.jpgAnd as you can see, only the part of the weapons that have no effect are turning red. (Since I'm not english, I may have done some mistakes, and tell me if I'm wrong anywhere)SUPERSYLUX 18:31, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Might just be an error/bug in the game and not an actual glitch.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 18:35, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

The Elite major from the package
WTF he hasn't even been releaved to be the major plus unless they were planning on giving him the rank of arbiter years before i think that it should be taken off until VALID proof has been given to support it. 207.6.161.208


 * The Halo Legends subtitles label his name as "Thel" and I believe the commentary reveals him as Thel 'Vadamee as well. No one would have put that in if they didn't have proof. --TDSpiral94 03:47, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Theres subtitles on it ? i wanna see it Alertfiend p.s sorry i forgot to log in


 * You'll have to ask someone else to get a screen-cap for you. For whatever reason, my computer won't allow me to take screen-caps while a DVD is playing. Or you can check out this thread on HBO; you can infer that Frankie (Frank O'Connor) acknowledges that the Major is Thel 'Vadumee, even if he doesn't explicitly state it. By the way, it's very possible for this to take place in 2535, and it's also possible that because of the Fleet Master's actions in The Package that 'Vadumee was promoted to take his place. Frankie actually makes note of this and says:

"For all the comments made about the major's fate, it seemed obvious to me that the commander was the one going to be in hot water when he gets back to High Charity - package lost, two very expensive ships scuppered." --TDSpiral94 06:03, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Let us not forget that Frank O'Connor worked VERY closely with the anime teams and wrote the story. -Faison 00:07, March 5, 2010.

.......you do know that most of what he did was write most of the books? Alertfiend 06:25, March 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * He's only written one short story out of 16 in Evolutions. Which is one book out of ten. That's hardly "most". --TDSpiral94 06:03, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if I am wrong, but Frank O'Connor founded 343 Industries which daily contributes to the history of Halo. But in the mean time maybe we should ask 343 just in case. Faison 14:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

To TDSpiral94 i have all the books besides first strike most of them was written by him and i am sure he founded 343 but bungie and that are not the same company ill check i would have edited this yes he did make it and at least half of the books unless there are WAY more then i have 207.6.161.208 07:52, March 6, 2010 (UTC) i keep forgeting to add the forth


 * Actually TDSpiral94 is correct. I have all the books and Frankie didn't write any of them beyond the short in Evolutions. I don't know what books you are looking at that claims Frankie wrote them, so here is a short list of who wrote the major books:


 * Eric Nylund wrote: The Fall of Reach, First Strike and Ghost of Onyx
 * William C. Dietz wrote: The Flood
 * Joseph Staten wrote: Contact Harvest
 * Tobias S. Buckell wrote: The Cole Protocol


 * You may want to check your sources, friend. Zeno &#39;Ribal 17:21, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

not those ones i meant like the story writing thats basiclly books wait how did we get on books Alertfiend 19:32, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just wondering, do you understand the sentence you typed?-  5 əb'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 19:36, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Seriously... you were the one that claimed Frankie wrote "most of the books," Alertfiend. I don't understand what you could possibly mean by that statement besides a book. So now what are you saying about story writing? What point are you trying to make exactly?--Nerfherder1428 21:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * You said 'books', Alertfiend, which implies the books like the ones I listed, which Frankie did not write. If you meant the storyline of the games or the Halo: Legends eps, then you should say so to prevent confusion. Zeno &#39;Ribal 22:28, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

YES ZENO YES thank you i got a little confused your the only smart one here who corrected me Alertfiend 09:26, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm just amazed he could actually understand you... :| - <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 20:11, March 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * TDSpiral94, you might not be able to take screen shots if your computer's like mine in that both the player and monitor are HDCP compliant. It's incredibly frustrating and I'm still trying to find a work-around. - Lord Hyren 01:28, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

One question I must ask is if Thel is indeed the Major from the Package, why then would he be surprised at Jai? He'd have faced off against MC before and his fleet would have fought several Spartans so Jai's appearance shouldn't have jarred him as much as it did. God, I freaking hate Halo Legends.--Zervziel 21:00, March 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is probably over-analyzing, but after fighting John he curses the Fleetmaster for ruining his chance at killing him. They fought, but not hand-to-hand like with Jai, and the duel with John didn't last long. So, maybe he didn't pay too much attention to their strength. Don't like that theory? Then it's just a retcon or a simple oversight. --TDSpiral94 06:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought it was assumed that The Package took place after The Cole Protocol in 2535 so that Thel had seen Jai for the first time. Also, I believe that's how it's stated in the reference's reasoning. -- Lord Hyren 00:59, March 10, 2010 (UTC) (forgot to sign edit)
 * I think that ref was made with the assumption that it was the shipmaster, not the major, that was Thel. If it had been the Shipmaster, the ep would have been set after The Cole Protocol. However, since it's been revealed that Thel is actually the Major, this ep must take place before the book. Zeno &#39;Ribal 01:21, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Who's Jai ? Alertfiend 04:33, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * He's Jai-006, a SPARTAN-II from Cole Protocol book. Just wondering, how old are you? {insert name  here}  04:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

I am 14 if you were talking to me 207.6.161.208 09:50, March 13, 2010 (UTC)