Talk:SPARTAN-II Program

Class-II
Although Halopedia has decided to remain largely ambiguous about the canonicity of the Class-II SPARTAN-IIs, I feel that we may have to look into the matter again.


 * 1) "Kelly had always been the fastest in their class." This is something John-117 thinks. He doesn't know of the SPARTAN-III program, therefore suggesting "class II".
 * 2) Although Halsey's funding was largely redirected to S-III, evidence suggests that when Alpha company was destroyed in 2537, she received enough funding for a class-II. This is shown by Yasmine Zaman being kidnapped for a SPARTAN program at age 6 and dying at age 14 in 2545, during augmentation procedures.
 * 3) Keep in mind that when Kurt-051 thinks that there will only be one class of SPARTAN-II, this is several years before their conscription.
 * 4) The "Personnel Intel reports" refer to Jorge-052 as a member of "the class of '25". If there was only one class of S-IIs to successfully be trained, why didn't they just call him a SPARTAN-II?
 * 5) Although Bungie originally designated "i love bees" as non-canon, they changed their minds later. They then said that they decided to have a canon expanded universe, and directly referred to ILB as canon. Keep in mind that this is the same speech that confirmed the novels as canon.
 * 6) Furthermore, the "Personnel Intel" and "Palace Hotel" suggestions are directly from Bungie.

calculation
28 SPARTAN-IIs are said to be at Reach - three of whom are at Gamma station. Excluding the secret "Black team", there are 33 SPARTAN-IIs officially surviving the augmentation process and remaining S-IIs.


 * From these 33, we remove "Sam", "Sheila"; "Solomon"; "Arthur"; "Cal" and "Randall" who are dead. That makes 27 at Reach.
 * Then, we subtract Jorge and Kurt, who were kidnapped. That's 25.
 * Maria retired. That's 24.
 * Mike; Adriana and Jai of Gray team were not at Reach.
 * Red team members "Douglas"; "Jerome" and "Alice" have been MIA since 2531. That makes 18 S-IIs officially available for Reach, and 15 officially on Reach - I don't know about "Keiichi"; "Daisy"; "Joseph" and "Ralph". Therefore; if Class-II exists, at least 13 SPARTAN-IIs must be class-II.

Please comment here.--  Fore  run  ner  15:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion
Just a side note, I don't think the B.net page with the information on the Reach characters is intended to be an excerpt from the CAA factbook. The factbook's in its own separate section and I doubt the colonial government would have files on individual Spartans like Jorge. As seen here, the information on the Reach "characters" page is likely intended to be from a military performance report, not the factbook which seems more like a civilian document. As for Class-II, the evidence seems solid. It's not 100% sure until they say it directly, but since ILB has been declared canon at least on some level, the existence of Class-II would make sense. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 15:04, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that CAA thing - I just noticed when you pointed it out. Anyway, we still have a lot of people who say that it's non-canon. Just look at the class-II section in the archive. I just felt that I should point out instances where it appears to be a confirmation.--  Fore  run  ner  15:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * When meeting each other, the generic multiplayer Spartans in Halo Wars occasionally say, "Another 2525 graduate, huh?". Like with Jorge's performance report, why say that unless there's another class? The original S-IIs did believe more Spartans were on the way, which was why Mendez left, which shows that they at least thought a second class existed. As for the number of S-IIs at Reach: Joseph, Daisy, and Ralph were reinstated after being retrieved; later, Daisy and Ralph died in the Harvest Campaign. However, as noted in Ralph's article, he was discharged after later augmentations. Scratch two more from the Autumn's contingent, ostensibly giving us 13 available Spartans. As many have theorized, Maria was almost certainly the one who was wounded beyond recovery; however, whether this is the true story or a cover for an ONI experiment *coughSPARTAN-2.1cough* is as yet unkown. Here's a counter argument: if some of the Spartans in Red Team during the Fall of Reach were indeed replacements from Class II, why wouldn't the others make any note of it? Keep in mind, however, that the re-relase of TFoR should finally resolve the numbers discrepancy, but don't get your hopes up for anything on the class of 2536. One more thing: Nassau Station - Nicole's stage from DoA 4 - was shown in the last issue of Uprising, so Class II could, hypothetically, experience a similar fate. --&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson 17:32, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps. I just hope that the class of '45 and the extra SPARTANs be recognised.--  Fore  run  ner  17:39, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

6 years of age source
Okay, sorry to bug anyone, but I was kind of wondering how do we know that all 75 spartans are 6, I mean, there must be some 5 and 7 year olds in the mix, so I was wondering what the 6 years of age source was, please reply, thank you. (Jamesgg521 01:28, August 17, 2010 (UTC))


 * 2511 seems to be used as the birthyear for all - it really should be "c. 2511". Fall of Reach refers to them as six in 2517, and they are referred to as all being 14 in 2525 just before augmentations (First Strike). This is likely just an average age - obviously some are older than others and at least one was bound to be 7 at the beginning. -- Forerunner 01:34, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is stated in the Fall of Reach that all chosen SPARTAN-II's were taken from a very select group of age, and gene specific group of children, to fit Dr. Halsey's plan for them. And they are all stated as being 6 years old in Chapter 3 of the Fall of Reach. VadersFist666 01:36, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I recall that a couple were listed as being slightly younger or older. Darthkenobi0(talk) 01:43, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Able to be infected?
Johnson was a Spartan-I, and his bio-augmentations rendered him immune to the flood, but if the Spartan-IIs recieved the same or better augmentations, why wasn't John-117 immune to the flood infection as well,as on page 323 of The Flood it states the infection form had already shoved the penetrator in when Cortan zapped it. Why were John's superiorly augmentated genes able to be mutated but not Johnson's? The differences and similarities between John and Johnson's augmented charictaristics would logically make John's neurological system to appear to have recieved "irreparrable damage" as well as Johnson's. --Turbogruntman117 14:51, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * His SPARTAN-I augmentations did not make him immune from the Flood; the so-called Flood-proof Boren Syndrome is simply a cover-up by ONI to hide off actual information about the SPARTAN-I. Every human is susceptible to being a Flood host, even SPARTANs. Why Johnson is not infected in Halo: Combat Evolved can be explained in Halo Graphic Novel; in the story, we can see that Johnson shrugged off the Infection Form, thus saved from transforming into a Flood form.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 14:58, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * So you are saying that everyone and everything else that did become flood infected did so because thay did'nt do enough 'shrugging'?I think the truth is in the boren syndrome, perhaps its life threatening, possibally terminal, a reason the infection forms passed him up but he would still be considered a threat, that made him a target for the combat forms.
 * "they passed me up like I was undercooked spinach in turkey dinner"- Sgt Johnson, Halo First Strike. Realisticaly the infection forms would come at u like the face huggers from Aliens cept these came at u by the hundreds
 * "they passed me up like I was undercooked spinach in turkey dinner"- Sgt Johnson, Halo First Strike. Realisticaly the infection forms would come at u like the face huggers from Aliens cept these came at u by the hundreds