Talk:The Package

Part 2
On the page, there is a summery of part 2. If this is real, supply a link. If it is fake, remove it.

Frederic-104
Do we have confirmation that he is in it? Only confirmed one I saw was John-117... /-/ Jetscream  ( Officer's Mess ) 09:03, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I was watching one of the videos that talks about it and I saw 104 on one of the Booster frames and since John-117 had a booster frame that also had the 117 tag, wouldn't that give the indication that Frederic is in it?T-rex-king 13:18, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks... You didn't see any 087 ones did you?? /-/ Jetscream [[Image:Hannah-022.jpg|14px]] ( Officer's Mess ) 08:05, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope. Just 117 and 104. T-rex-king 13:17, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you provide a link to where you saw this? - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  22:03, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

This video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMMtiFz6d7c When it reaches the 4:49 part, look really carefully to the second one on the right and at 5:00, the guy says it's 0104 (master Chief's booster frame is also 0117). Need anymore proof?
 * No, I'm good thanks. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  13:53, November 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * And in response to Jetscream, yes actually, Kelly will appear. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  13:53, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

In hindsight it was obvious from the start that Fred was in it, look at the gray spartan on the poster, his shoulder in particular, a knife Fred's trademark, hes the only one of the three with a knife.

Kelly and Thel Vadamee
Okay, where can I find proof of that? Frederick is known because of what I've shown, but what about these two? T-rex-king 02:48, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about Kelly-087. Thel Vadumee isn't a Halo character, by the way.-  Fore  run  ner  02:53, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * yes they were both mentioned in the official xbox magazine.--Ashkan73 09:09, December 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Uh, Forerunner? What do you mean?--Fluffball Gato 23:37, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * He was refering to the misspelling of Thel's surname. There isn't a Thel 'Vadumee in the haloverse, but there is a Thel 'Vadamee. Zeno &#39;Ribal 00:30, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * T-Rex spelled it correctly, Forerunner did not. --Fluffball Gato 02:34, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * It wasn't initially, if I remember right. He had corrected it since then. Zeno &#39;Ribal 02:35, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Characters
I'm guessing wildly here, but once we get images depicting the individual SPARTANs, with or without helmets, they're going to their respective pages as bio pics? /-/ Jetscream  ( Officer's Mess ) 15:52, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, if they don't already have a picture. --TDSpiral94 18:42, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Both Kelly and Frederic do have images, but only conjectural ones from the cover of Ghosts of Onyx. I was thinking if they could be getting better images from the Package... /-/ Jetscream [[Image:Hannah-022.jpg|14px]] ( Officer's Mess ) 18:51, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Then I'm sure that would be fine if there was definitive images of the two. --TDSpiral94 23:33, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

booster frame weaponry
Each frame carries several pods that when fired release dozens of smaller high explosive missiles-are these archer missile pods?--Navypilot1046 02:15, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt it...Archer missiles seems too large for something of this size. Also, you need to aim them and everything, so probably no. --Colonel Grade One.png  General5 7    talk    contribs    email   02:51, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

From the short, it looks like the Booster Frame carries two forward-facing AIE-486H heavy machineguns, a rear-facing deployable M41 LAAG, and various missile pods and flares. --  Administrator  Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   02:34, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

The "Prowler" in the Package actually a Stealth Cruiser?
It's my belief that the UNSC ship in the Package is not a prowler but in fact a Stealth Cruiser.

The reason being that in Cole Protocol Grey Team are able to pilot a Prowler, indicating that it is a relatively small ship that can be manned by a small crew. This is enforced by the fact that it is a stealth ship and thus would be used for recon mainly it would be impractical that a stealth recon ship would be the size of the ship in the Package, given that the Package ship has a hanger bay and decloacks before releasing the spartans one would assume that it has sufficient weaponary to combat potential threats, something that a Prowler lacks yet a Stealth Cruiser doesn't.


 * I'd say "Prowler" is a catch-all term for any spacecraft with stealth capabilities, whether originally designed for the role or converted from something else. The ships Grey Team piloted were simply converted freighters with rudimentary weapons grafted on and an outer layer of stealth systems for camouflage. The required a standard crew of ninety, and a skeleton crew of forty three. --  Administrator   Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   08:13, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Time frame
When does this take place?69.254.238.112 19:36, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't know but I would guess about 2545-2550ish II Helljumper II


 * Frankie has given a strightforward answer yet. All he has said is that it takes long before 2552. Also, at the poster before me, you use 4~. SPARTAN-177 20:13, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

If it takes place before 2552, than why are the spartans wearing Mark VI armor?

I don't think it is Mark Vi, I think it just looks like it II Helljumper II

Here is his answer for the time frame question. SPARTAN-177 20:22, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does his answer make no sense?69.254.238.112 05:39, December 6, 2009

Helljumper II is correct; that is not MJOLNIR Mk VI, just really strongly resembles it. I have looked at that armor long and hard, and though at a first quick, lazy-minded glance it looks like Mk VI, a harder and more thorough look reveals many features that show that it is not.

For starters, here are some significant differences:


 * The upper part of the helmet is too compressed.
 * The visor is too compressed.
 * The lower part is too curved and bulging to exactly be Mk VI.
 * The chest plate has tubes and other hardware that is obviously not present on the Mk VI.
 * The chest plate itself is far too curved inward, and many of its portions are too small.
 * Shoulder, thigh, and other plates of armor are too flat and jagged to be Mk VI.
 * The back of the armor has a metallic-vertebraed "spine", which is never seen on any other suits.
 * The butt plate is too thin, and is connected to the spine portion, and the wrists and other portions are not entirely identical to the Mk VI.
 * The wrists and even the gloves are not entirely right to be Mk VI, with some parts more blurred, covered, and simply colored that is not seen in the Mk VI.

Also, the armor in general is somewhat more "chunky" and primitive in appearance relative to the Mk VI.

And not to leave things untouched, I know about Frankie's comments about aesthetics etc., and that definitely is a factor here. As for the part about varying appearances in multiplayer and Mk V and VI not looking the way they are meant to, he's basically saying, "don't get so hung up on all of these little details, they're not so important". Still, to entirely dismiss it as all "artistic license" seems to me at least to selling it a bit too short, especially regarding the Spartan's armor. There are as many licenses employed as there are accuracies in this episode, much like the other two, so it is more rational to see it as a mix with some going back and forth.

As for the armor itself and its artistic differences aside, the very features shown that I outlined are significant enough in functionality relative to the canon standard Mk IV (the Halo Wars and Babysitter ones) that it could be seen as an upgrade and/or refitting of the armor itself.

For a system that is employed for 25 years that has no shields and is subject to great wear, tear, damage, etc. combined with the fact that the Mk IV is the foundation and even the testbed for future innovations seen in the Mk V and ultimately the Mk VI, it seems pretty unlikely that it is going to stay static and unchanging in appearance and functionality beyond just "strap-on" portions limited to chest plates, shoulder plates, and helmets. As we are used to them in Halo 3, that is a practical limitation and an aesthetic addition, not properly representing what would actually be employed in-universe.

A MJOLNIR suit is an extremely complex piece of technology; are changed or enhanced functionalities such as those seen in the variants just simply going to be taking off and on pieces like some lego object? Unlikely. It would entail taking off and replacing the parts combined with changing the hardware and making sure it all fits together. There is much more to creating variants of something than just what we see with the multiplayer armor permutations.

The real deal would be a much more dramatic affair, and something like the Mk IV is almost certainly going to look very different from when it is first donned and used after years of use, especially for something that has no shields and would likely be subject to great damage, fatigue, and simply customization combined with improved equipment and materiel being available. The early Mk IV has many weaknesses in terms of protection and armor coverage relative to what is seen here, so it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the armor pieces themselves are replaced with better components as time goes on.

This could've happen sooner rather than later, for the early MJOLNIR Mk IV may very well have shown poor performance in the realm of damage reception and endurance, for its armor components may not have been up to the task, given its lack of shields and the fragility of the armor; it doesn't take much from Covenant weapons to compromise it- look what happened to Samuel.

John-117's and the other SPARTAN-II's armor looks like it would provide superior protection against incoming damage compared to the suits worn by Teams Red and Omega and Cal-141, while retaining the necessary flexibility and agility that the MJOLNIR excels at providing.

Another thing that I have noticed is that this may help explain why Team Black's armor looks the way it does. In-universe, their armor are prototypes for what will become the standard Mk VI, and it is unlikely that their appearance and functionality developed in a vacuum. For all we know, they are evolved and refined descendants of this particular upgrade/refit/model of Mk IV, taking the basic form shown here and making it into the familiar form that we seen in the Mk VI.

--Exalted Obliteration 02:21, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Shields
Why did the Spartans have Shields? If you check their HUDs they have a Blue shield bar. Is their armours shield or their booster frames shields? On topic of Shields, how can ONI make Shields for the Booster frames but not on the MJLNOR armour themselves? II Helljumper II (UTC)


 * The Booster Frames have shields.Also, Frankie did said the shields are weak so maybe that why they didn't put them into the MJLNOR amrour until the Mk.V or maybe they had to make a new model of MJLNOR because the shields tech was unable to be added on to the Mk. IV. SPARTAN-177 20:48, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * In hindsight, I don't recall much material saying that Mark IV never had shields - only that it wasn't built with that as a concrete aspect of the design. I remember hearing something about Black Team's Mar IV having prototype shields that would be improved in the Mark V - I'd say the shields in the Package, and probably Halo Wars' Red Team's shields, might be something similar.--  Administrator  Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   22:56, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, it has been established that the Mark V was the first MJOLNIR armour to have energy shielding in FoR. So, it is safe for us to assume that the Mark IV never had shields. However, there's several ways to go around this impossibility... :P -  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 23:13, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * If they have shields, they can only take a few, if maybe not one hit. Remember how Kelly's Booster Frame got disabled after one hit from a Seraph? -3vil D3m0n 07:54, December 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * I can find a few very clear reasons why the armor would not be shielded, but the booster frames could be. Putting aside the fact that the Mk. IV has been stated numerous times not to have shields, there are a few other reasons to explain why the armor wouldn't have it while other technology might.  As displayed in the video, the shields are relatively weak (though relatively is a key word, because though it only took a single shot to drain it, lets remember these are fighter weapons and not handheld plasma pistols or rifles), and they may be bulky.  Lets imagine something.  The shield generator was probably very basic and thus very bulky, and it may have been deemed impractical for a suit of armor, while a fighter like the booster frame would have been able to support it.  As technology became better and more refined, it would probably have shrunk enough to be put into the standard Mk. V, thus creating the difference.  Spartan 501 02:52, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't take those HUD's very seriously though, Solomon's HUD said he was holding a Spartan Laser and a SMG, yet he was holding an Assault Rifle. -3vil D3m0n 06:49, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Who says its shields? Its probably health. Its a blue bar, the ODSTs have a orange bar that represents health, so why can't the Spartans have a blue one representing health? --CiaoGamer 02:50, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

is the elite in this animation thel vadamee?
just wanted to know because thel acts like a demon here and in halo 3 & 2 he acts kindly. IMPORTANT:in the xbox magazine said that in halo the package thel vadam will play a major part in it.


 * Thel was not always the loveable Sangheili we know in H2 & 3. Read The Cole Protocol to see how he was before he was shamed and humbled.  Zeno &#39;Ribal 07:12, December 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Does that mean this is the Fleet of Particular Justice? -3vil D3m0n 07:57, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

I assumed that the red major that duels with the chief was Thel, he gave the chief a sword and was talented with his own. I just assumed that this was before his promotion supreme commander. --CiaoGamer 01:38, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think so, Thel was already a Zealot before he became supreme commander. If it is Thel, it must be really early in the war, also considering how young Dr. Halsey looked. - 3vil D3m0n 07:23, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * I seriously doubt the Major was Thel as well. Thel was already a zealot/shipmaster four years after the Halo Wars game (from what we know of the timeline in The Cole Protocol).  The earliest involvement in the war with Spartans was Halo Wars to my knowledge, so it is unlikely this took place prior to the Halo Wars timeline.  That would leave four years for Thel to be Major, then promoted to Ultra, then Fieldmaster (first zealot rank) and finally Shipmaster as he is in The Cole Protocol.  Considering this Major was considered shamed by the shipmaster in this ep, that makes it even more unlikely the major is Thel.  What is more likely, is that this Major is the Arbiter in Halo: Reach (if the speculation of an Arbiter being there is correct) and that the shipmaster is Thel.  Zeno &#39;Ribal 19:10, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't see what Zeno said, and posted the same thing. Great minds think alike?--Lekgolo 23:48, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Ship shields
Ok, why the Hell were the Spartans able to breach the shield of a Covenant Capital ship with anything short of a nuke or a MAC round? Seriously, we're expected to believe that two of these booster frames can breach the ships shields that easily, then it makes me wonder why the hell humanity was losing! Also why was the turret on the back of MC's booster frame capable of destroying Seraphs when in Ghost of Onyx they could take 2 missiles and the shields would still be up? I must say alot of canon was thrown out the window in return for some pretty lights and effects.--Zervziel 02:30, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't recall there being any shields on the ships. There's something stopping the fleet from jumping, possibly a nearby stellar phenomenon - perhaps its interfering with Covenant shields? --  Administrator  Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   02:41, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I don't recall there being such an anomaly and besides wouldn't they have mentioned it was lowering their shields? --Zervziel 03:10, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think Frankie said it on HBO they did have shields. But the Booster frame weaponry was designed to make small breaches into the shielding using some kind of advanced combination of EMP, explosives and gauss cannons. One has to wonder though, why wasn't that tech utilized on larger starships.--Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 06:45, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * My guess wasn't too far off - there was magnetic interference preventing them from jumping to slipspace. --  Administrator  Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   08:40, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * What a inconsistent story... 91.41.3.222

It could just be that the hangar bay shields are separate from the overall ship shields, so they could be lowered and raised easier. That would make them easier to penetrate, rather than having to put down the entire ship's shields. They appeared to be in a place that it would be very unlikely to hit with a MAC round, so they could afford to do so.

Package
WTF? The Package is Halsey? Was it really such a good idea? 91.41.3.222


 * Was it a good idea for what? --TDSpiral94 09:22, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

I thought it was ok. i mean, now we dont really have to imagine what she looks like, but i was kind of annoyed when it sounded like she had a little bit of an english accent. just a little annoying for me-- Heretic Havana

Regional Venacular and dialects will still exist in the future. Product of speech and what not.

also thats a bit of a xenophobic view to take on the world. Halsey is a very British name. ProphetofTruth 00:48, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

yea, im sorry if i offended anyone. I always considered Halsey to have, like, no accent. (From my point of veiw, im american, so i dont consider myself to have an accent.) --- Heretic Havana

actually, cortana was supposed to originally have a british accent. thats why she says "fod off!" to 343 in CE, (thats a british term)

Steath ONI
is it just me, or did the ONI ship shoot a plasma round or something?
 * I thought that as well, meh artistic license, doesn't matter much --CiaoGamer 02:48, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Shrug
In the escape pod scene, the John 117 shrugged. In one of the books, didnt it say it was extremly difficult to shrug, and only the most coordinated SPARTANS (Linda) could shrug. how did the Chief shrug?--Heretic Havana


 * Dramatic Effect

ok, that makes sense.-- Heretic Havana
 * Maybe after years of practice and acclimatization? --CiaoGamer 02:46, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Halsey
I love how the first 2 lines out of Halsey are directly ripped from the games to bludgeon us over the head with the fact she is somehow linked to Cortana, which I find odd, because the only people who knows who she is in the first place and just why she is so significant are people who read the novels. Anyone new to the franchise would be confused and not know who this is at worst and at best, if they've only played the games, they'll assume at must she's either linked to Cortana or that the writers of this episode were just lazy.--Zervziel 18:54, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Thel
It's not Thel, there's no way, he's a major and the zealot says his fait is to be an arbiter. Thel became one at Supreme Commander. So this is another elite who becomes the arby.(Maybes the Reach one!)--Lekgolo 22:58, December 13, 2009 (UTC)