planet Edit

1205183729 Planet

from what i've seen form the trailer the planet that appears at the beginning looks a lot with the one MC crash landed on (see pictures) the green parts on the legendary planet on the image on the right seem to form the same pattern as that continent on the left image and the black parts on the planet seem like the oceans on the left, add there is also the exact symbol, know the images aren't the best, but what do you think, could it be the legendary planet ?--Fipas 13:57, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

How about this? It's Reach! - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 14:14, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Only time will tell --Spartan-489 14:16, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Looks like 343 Industries is trying to reinforce Halo Wars' plot.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 14:43, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

I just watched the episode and i can say that planet the main focus of the entire episode as if thats the only place the forerunner and flood fought. and after watching it im convinced that it's the forerunner homeworld and thats where chief is going.grey 03:12, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with grey, I was thinking the exact same thing. --3vil D3m0n 11:14, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

yep i also agree with grey and D3mon , the planet at the end of halo 3 is the the forerunner homeworld. Adam2me 23:54, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

There's one problem with this theory, the planet's don't match up. The symbols on the legendary planet differ from the symbols on the origins planet. User:EchostreamFanJosh

But that does'nt change anything because the symbols would have worn away over that amount of time. Oh and for those of you who want to vote for it then go here. --Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an 117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 17:00, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Huragok or sentinel ? Edit

Sem titulo

with all due respect guys, but this looks a lot more like huragok than with Retrievers...--Fipas 22:10, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see any resemblance with Huragok. They're obviously Sentinel-like machines, though they seem to be smaller than Retrievers unless they're supposed to be in the distance.--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 22:16, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
They have to be some Forerunner construction machines similar to the Sentinels. Can't be Huragok. --UNSC Trooper Unsctrooper small TalkMy Work 22:20, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Well to me they look like huragok, maybe not the odst version but like theese ones [1] [2] the main body being the head and gas sacks and then the tentacules comming down from that--Fipas 22:34, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Seems like the tentacles in this picture are way too long compared to those structures, though. What would the Huragok be doing 100,000 or so years in the past? --UNSC Trooper Unsctrooper small TalkMy Work 22:37, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
The shape of the "head" in the picture supplied is not bulbous; it is more triangular and fits the visual presentation of a Retrievers.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 22:49, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Well they were created by the forerunners to do who knows waht, so i guess it would make sense to include them on Origins--Fipas 22:42, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

No. If they do appear in the episode, only then should we add them to the article. Other than that, no.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 22:47, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

They look like the Sentinels from the 'Cradle of Life' comic.

Capt. Daget J. Sparrow 05:16, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

The Sentinels in Cradle of Life are Retrievers. --3vil D3m0n 08:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

their are no huragok during the whole episode, just forerunners,sentinels, and strato sentinelsgrey 03:12, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

why removed? Edit

why was the trivia taken out?grey 03:18, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Cortana's 7th YearEdit

According to Part I of this, Cortana has lived for 7 years. I think, that means she's "dead/rampant" after that. //--TehK (tok) 08:49, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, smart AIs don't simply die after seven years... they are deleted for security reasons. She already was rampant, anyway, and seems to have achieved a state of stability. It doesn't have to be exactly seven years. -- Forerunner 21:29, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

I thought she would have put herself in something similiar to stand by though.T-rex-king 23:28, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

I think it should be taken off the page that she is going rampant. Her hologram flickering could simply be the ship's power failing. Cortana can't go rampant. EchostreamFanJosh

What at all suggests she can't go Rampant? - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 00:13, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Rampancy doesn't mean the AI is dead, remember Juliana in the Cole Protocol? She doesn't show signs of rampancy because she still has the goal of protecting the Rubble, maybe Cortana wants to protect the Chief, so she doesn't show signs of rampancy either. --3vil D3m0n 16:42, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the video did in fact attempt to show her becoming rampant. I however believe that this should not be canon, as there are many sources that show Cortana is currently "meta-stable", or in such a state as to be almost human, and therefor cannot become rampant again. The stages of rampancy often depict a final state, the "meta-stable" state, which an AI can achieve if they survive rampancy. Only one confirmed AI has achieved it, Mendicant Bias, after humanity was discovered. It also discribes Cortana becoming rampant due to the torture of Gravemind in the short story Human Weakness. As shown in Halo 3, she clearly managed to emerge from rampancy mostly intact and sane, thus showing a "meta-stable" state. If Cortana could survive the Gravemind, why would she not be able to survive the relative "relaxation" of being on a ship lost in space? If she is truely meta-stable, then her 7 year lifespan no longer applies, either. --Extron 04:51, February 4, 2010 (UTC)Extron

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Cortana mentioning how the storage of so much data after her encounter with the flood and the events of Halo: CE could potentially shorten her lifespan. I think it's from either The Flood or First Strike. Also, did anyone else notice how after she stepped off her pedestle and enlarged, she was able to wipe fog off of the cryo-pod? Isn't she a projection? On a semi-related subject, the flickering hologram could mean the ship's power is failing, meaning that John could die, and be revived for a sequel! If so, I'm putting his last name down as Shepard. Fargone Cowboy 21:06, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

"Halo doesn't kill Flood, it kills their food"? Edit

In Halo CE Cortana says that the Halo Array kills all possible host species in the Galaxy. But in Orgins, the Halo Array is seen to kill Flood as well. Is this a contradiction?--<SCROTE> 09:31, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it also kills transentient life, but with much less effectiveness than sentient life, so the Flood that are father away survive Halo but starve to death. --3vil D3m0n 10:31, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

I thought it along the lines of how the one in Halo Wars works, if the cleansing process is a miniature Halo array, wouldn't the larger one have an effect similar? Since the Flood mass essentially getting burned and disintegrated, when Origins portrayed it I immediately thought Halo Wars style.--CyanDeadEye 19:49, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

The Array would have certainly killed the Gravemind at the time. Maby the Flood that we see get killed at Graveminds. They were all pretty big EchostreamFanJosh

The Halo Array kills anything organic: Humans, Covenant, and the FLOOD...the flood is just a parasite in a human or covenant body anyways...the only reason that any flood survived the firing of the rings by the forerunners is because the forerunners had samples in lock down in the ring itself...but when the covenant found the lock down on installation 04 they opened it and let loose the worst think imaginable --Spartan-107: Jason 03:38, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

This has been confirmed that Halo does in fact kill Flood. In one of the Halo: Evolutions short stories, it states that Halo kills all sentient life and Flood. The only way to eradicate the Flood is to have a galactic weapon, and the Forerunners could not figure out how to get the weapon to distinguish between infected life and healthy life. I don't think Halo actually destroys the spores that the Flood start as, but it does kill the combat, infection, and carrier forms, as well an any other Flood made up of organic material. --Extron 19:27, February 6, 2010 (UTC)Extron

And which story is this? I certainly don't remember that being said. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 19:34, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

If the Flood (such as pure Forms) are made up of biomass and the Halos destroy Biomass, then it definately kills flood. -- Matt98 13:05 April 17 2010 (UTC)

sentient species Edit

I don't believe this is wrong. When the Halo Array was lit 100,000 prior to the events of Halo: CE all sentient life was extinguished. In Halo Origins: Part 1, Cortana mentions the Flood become more and more intelligent as they progresses farther and farther into the galaxy.

So yes, Halo: CE does say it kills the host species, it could just be a lack of understanding on Cortana's part. During Halo: 3, the terminals tell of how when the AI lit the rings, it extinguished all sentient life, as it intended. So I believe in Halo: CE it was a misunderstanding on Cortana's part. Afterall, they did misunderstand Halo's purpose from the beginning.

Maverickdawg85 10:04, January 2, 2010 (UTC)Mav

You guys don't understand how the flood works. if an infection form were to infect you right now it would gain all your memory,skills, smarts, etc thus making them smarter. what if Einstein had gotten infected and were to be a puppet for the flood, they would be smarter and would use that knowledge to further infect and defeat other lifeforms.grey 03:26, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

Mendicant Bias in Origins? Edit

At 3:37 I noticed there's some sort of Monitor with 3 eyes going rampant while surrounded by the Flood. Does anyone else think this might be Mendicant Bias and does someone know what the Forerunner Glyph on it means? --3vil D3m0n 10:34, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Definitely.SPARTAN-177 21:26, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

I saw that also, but if it actually had a physical form, how did Offensive Bias "fragment" it? Did it, literally, fragment Medicant Bias? Heretic Havana 23:01, January 2, 2010 (UTC) Heretic Havana

I heard someone calling it a hologram somewhere but that was a fan that said it so it might not be true. SPARTAN-177 00:00, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
OB fragmented the AI's programming, if his physical form was fragmented he wouldn't have functioned at all. The physical form was most likely installed in High Charity's Dreadnought. --3vil D3m0n 08:07, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense. Although, I seem to remember in Contact Harvest, the Oracle on the Dreadnought had one eye. -- Heretic Havana 15:22, January 3, 2010 (UTC) Heretic Havana

Dunno, could just be artistic license or new canon. Or OB really did take him apart in three pieces. xD --3vil D3m0n 06:12, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ur-Didact was in it but it wasn't necesarrily said in the episode it was him. I think this could be the same case for MB. EchostreamFanJosh

Mistake Edit

They made a mistake, 100000 years ago all humans were black but the humans in this video are white. Bungie did it the right way in The Cradle of Life comic so 343 studios have to pay more attention.

Thats a bold assumtion, just because they originated in africa doesn't mean they were Black. As the "Black" we know today is the product of hundreds of years of a populations adaptation to their enviroment. We know native Egyptians looked Middle Eastern, and the groups that migrated north into europe are known to have lighter skin tones, while not exactly "White." They depicted a group of people with ochre darkish skin tones, and while they used a stereotypical caveman esque figure, I hardly think they got anything "wrong". ProphetofTruth 17:48, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

The depiction was more akin to Neanderthals, who coexisted with Homo sapiens until about 30,000 years ago. What they're doing in Africa of all places, when they dominated Europe, the middle-east and parts of Asia before H. sapiens arrived, is anyone's guess. I'm betting the animators didn't think about any of that, and just went with the stereotypical caveman figure as representative of humanity, though the fact that the now-extinct Neanderthals were archived, saved from the Array, and returned successfully is an interesting thought. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 08:54, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

Other Halo locations Edit

Uh, yeah, this cartoon pretty much implied that the other Halos are orbiting around certain Covenant homeworlds. To be exact, the Jackal homeworld, the Brute homeworld, the Elite homeworld, and the Hunter homeworld. I think that is something worth mentioning even though it most likely isn't canon. 20:02, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

It most definitely can't be. If the Halos were in orbit around the Covenant homeworlds, they would have landed on them, and studied them, would probably have released the Flood and learned their true purpose. I assume, the shots seen of Halo from the planets were when the Halos were being transported to their actual locations. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 20:10, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
Will, some people are coming up with theories about that. Some think the Halos were passing through, some think the Halos caused damage to the planets causing the machines to seed them on other planets,some think the Halos might have slipped out of orbit, and others think some other things (meteriods,suns going nova,etc.) caused them to be seeded on other planets. Until we get an answer we just have speculate.SPARTAN-177 21:03, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

It didn't imply anything of the sort. Look at 04 and 05. They are orbiting in such a way between a gas giant and a moon, that each body's gravitational pull is the same... stopping the ring from being pulled into either. That would NOT happen if they were merely thrown randomly to the sky. The logical assumption is that the Forerunners chose seven systems in certain parts of the galaxy, where they could get a perfect orbit. That way, the rings would NOT escape orbit and the "doomsday device" would always have a 100% kill rate, leaving out no world.-- Forerunner 21:36, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Don't know what you're talking about Forerunner. To say it didn't imply such a thing is well denial truthfully. Yes, it would go against canon to have the certain Halos orbiting around the certain Covenant homeworlds (considering a terrestrial planet could most likely not hold a Halo ring within its orbit), but even though, the Halo Legends cartoon tend to go against canon. Showing the Halo rings appearing in the skies of various Covenant planets seems to imply that the anime company animating the cartoon thought it would be plausible to have the rings orbiting around certain Covenant worlds even though we the fans know it would not be. 22:18, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
I got the impression that the Halo's appearing in the skies of Eay'n, Sanghelios and Doisac was a temporary thing. The Ark moved the Halo's from their place of construction to places in the galaxy - there's nothing to say that these were their final orbits. After activation, the Halo's may have been moved to more stable orbits to ensure their functionality if needed later.-- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 23:35, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

It's possible the rings were sent out to seed those planets with life (like, i don't know, send pods of early lifeforms down to the planet's serface), and then move on elsewhere. I don't know if it says anywhere exactly what they did to put life back on the planets, so if does then disregard this :P. Serithi 03:46, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, just looked it up, Keyships were sent out to replace the lifeforms. It's still possible they used the Halo rings to replace them as well like i said, though. --Serithi 00:28, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Keyship Edit

All of those Keyships that we saw towards the end couldn't have just disappeared. There may be one still on Earth, Sangellios, Bahalo, and the other homeworlds. And the Sentinels. Are they still on the homeworlds, buried with the Keyships? Just some food for thought..... --Heretic Havana 23:07, January 2, 2010 (UTC) Heretic Havana

The Terminals mention that they were all destroyed by the Forerunners afterward, to prevent access to the Ark by any surviving Flood. Of course, it says they did this before they activated the Array, and we see Keyships returning species to their worlds afterwards - its probably a hypothetical situation dreamed up by Cortana. In fact, since she even states that she has to make some guesses about the intervening time between the start and end of the war between the Flood and Forerunners, I find it quite likely that they whole thing is a dream sequence of hers. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 23:30, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
Frankie saids that that the terminals were referring to L's ships, not all of them.

So, we have two conflicting answers. One says they are gone, and the other says they may still be here. What is it? -- Heretic Havana 23:46, January 2, 2010 (UTC) Heretic Havana

Question Edit

When did it take place? The cutting edge of the wreckage is glowing red so it is molten metal. It cant be a long time after the Halo 3 credits. Are you agreeing?

It takes place five years later, in 2557. The reason the metal is still slightly glowing, is because despite the unimaginable sub-zero temperatures, things take a long time to cool down in space. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 12:05, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Uhm no, the high temperatur of the molten part should spread over the cold metal and it should have cooled down enough that it dont glow like molten metal. So it is a error or the story takes place short after the halo 3 credits.
Space lacks air, gravity and is extremely cold, small points of heat like the ones on the ship don't spread easily. And it takes place five years later, as Cortana talks of being seven years old, and she was created in 2550, so put two and two together. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 12:29, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Heat travels through two ways:
  • Another object touching the hot object; or
  • Heat transfers to molecules in the air.
As Air or Atmosphere is not present in space, and there is little "space garbage" (ie. the space around Earth is filled with debris from past missions, such as damaged components and abandoned rocket stages), the heat would still be on the ship, having nowhere to go. Heat does not simply die down, it is spread over a larger and larger space through contact, until you cannot feel it.-- Forerunner 15:42, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
I think he meant that the heat should be transferred through conduction throughout the rest of the ships hull, rather than keep to the glowing hot edges. I'm sure its some function or other of UNSC hull defences, keeping heated hull plates restricted to sections - perhaps evidence of reactive armour? -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 21:13, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Heat is transfered in THREE ways, conduction(two oblects in direct contact), convection(movement of fluids(air, water, etc.)), and radiation(passage of heat in the form of infrared rays, such as how the sun's heat reaches the earth). Therefore, this episode must take place either right after cheif goes into cryo(maybe within a few hours after the credits of halo 3)or it is an artistic error on the studio's part.--Navypilot1046 21:29, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for the heat explanation, but what part of five years later don't you people understand? - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 21:31, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

How do we know it takes place 5 years later? and if so why isn't that on the article?grey 00:27, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

My God, I've explained this three times. Cortana was made in 2550, she says she is seven years old in Origins, 2550+7=2557! Ta da! - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 18:08, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Mendicant biasEdit



we see Mendicant Bias in his normal state, probably in the middle of talking with Gravemind.


And here, we see flood surrounded a corrupted Mendicant Bias, note how he's now red.

Yes, I can see were you are going at, but where are they anyhow? A Forerunner Colony planet that has fallen to the Flood? It can't be that same one with the Iris on it, could it?(and you can see that what ever that is has the Iris symbol on itself) Well, later in the short film, Gravemind appers brefly in a Forerunner Facility, so that might suport it being a Forerunner Colony planet that the Flood have taken over. Yet it would be easier to say that it is the Flood Cantament Facility, but it is definatly not. So I am not sure what it is. - Annonomus 4:55, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I already made a section for this subject on this talk page, you could have just posted this there. --3vil D3m0n 06:09, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
Mendicant Bias had a fleet, and was meant to penetrate deep into Flood space to learn what he could, and find a way to strike a crippling blow. I would therefore imagine that he's aboard a ship of some sort, or a frontline colony world at the least. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 10:32, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

the scale and size Edit

I understand with more biomass being present the flood would be large, but i don't think we are seeing how big. If you pause the movie at 3:36 you can see some "dots" at the lower part of the screen, which are in fact forerunners and compared to that... "thing" they are tiny. Also if you look at the flood in the room with mendicant bias, you can see the sheer size of them compared to the forerunners based on how tall they are im comparison to the walls.

I personally thought this was pretty amazing know how big they could get and just wanted to point it out.grey 00:33, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

I think that if we look closely at this we may see some new flood forms. FatalSnipe117 16:29, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Forerunner in the combat armor???? Edit

Who was the forerunner in the combat suit that activated the halo arrays??? I think it could be the librarians lover, but thats only a speculation. Lintyelm 12:55, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Didact was the Forerunner that activated the array, and, according to his article, that was him. - Annonomus 3:11, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

okay thanks, cuasei was confused about that Lintyelm 13:00, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

How can some of the Halos be near some of the Covenant homeworlds??? Edit

This is Impossible because the Covenant came to those planets Sanghelios (Elite homeworld) Doisac (Brute homeworld) and Eyan (Jackle homeworld). The Covenant did not discover the Halos around those planets so that is not cannon. But the only way it is cannon is if the Sangheli (the Elites) the Brutes (forgotten how to spell the Brutes Covenant name) the Kig-Yar (the Jackles) had their memories wiped and the Halos moved.--Cally99117 20:04, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

I think the rings must've either been moved, or it's an artistic liberty for the sake of dramatic storytelling. But even if all those species saw the rings 100,000 years ago, they wouldn't need to have their memories wiped. All of those who saw the activation were killed while only some specimens were transported to the Ark and later reseeded. And how would they remember events that happened that long ago anyways? --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 13:50, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
Another good point to look at is the fact that the rings would teleport to the ark once built/used/etc. Its quite probably that the rings brought the species to said planets then teleported away?--Sage winard 22:22, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

The rings must have been placed near the planets to have maximum effect and then 'hidden' to prevent any species from using them as the forerunners must have anticipated that someone might use it accidentally or for evil. --User:Matt98 12:59 April 17th 2010 (UTC)

What? Edit

Where are New York City, Supreme headqaurters, Terrence Hood, and all the other stuff in the video? --Sgt.T.N.Biscuits 00:09, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

They'll probobly be in part 2, which is coming out later in February I think(preview for new eps airs 2/2/2010 and then I assume they'll air part 2 week after that, it doesn't make sense to air part 1 then go to say odd one out.Navypilot1046 03:21, January 19, 2010 (UTC))

Species reseeding. Edit

So the forerunners in their wisdom preserved specimens of the other species. Why didn't they preserve some of their own embryos, children, or etc?

Well, the episode seems to suggest they did. Whether or not they're still out there is unknown. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 17:23, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe some did survive but they felt guilty about killing everything so they went to another galaxy and made it look like they died in every way they could.

WTF? Edit

Did anyone see Origins part 2, yet? I sa it on some Japenese website and it depicted Marines(in massive numbers) fighting the flood on what looks like Forerunner planets. What's up with that. Is it supposed to be the Ark or something? --Sgt.T.N.Biscuits 02:02, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I do believe that what they are trying to do is show how intense and how epic the battle for the ark truly was. A video game can only show you so much. That or it was after the war ended and all that.--Cookie Dude 03:42, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
I've watched it, but I haven't seen any Forerunner planets. There's a large part of the episode which shows the Battle of the Ark. --UNSC Trooper Unsctrooper small TalkMy Work 12:09, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Where can i'll find it?--Chairman Jack the Black 15:32, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

I see images of Johnson and the arbiter so part 2 has to have been leaked, where is it? They said there's supposed to be a twist ending. EchostreamFanJosh

If anyone posts links to these leaked materials, they would be banned without given any warnings.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 16:55, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Then check the Arbiter page and go to the very bottom, there's a image of the Arbiter from Origins that's not in Part 1 or the Making of Origins. [REDACTED] —This unsigned comment is made by EchostreamFanJosh (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Echostream, this is not the area asking for such links.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 17:02, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

But... but it showed an alliance between UNSC and the WHOLE Covenant... that never happened! Also, what the hell is going on in the end, with a Flood form awakening inside a Forerunner helmet, the Gravemind giving the Cortana chip to the Master Chief, the Chief being teleported on what looks like the semi-destroyed installation 04B, 343 Guilty Spark floating randomly around and Cortana interacting with physical word? That just didn't make sense.

The DVD has been released! Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an 117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 16:52, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Canon of this and other Halo: Legends episodes Edit

I don't really know for sure if there is an official Bungie/Microsoft answer floating around the web, but I was wondering about the canon of this and other Halo: Legends episodes. Of the few that I have actually seen, (which is not much), I would be inclined to reject these episodes as non-canon. This one in particular seems to be extremely out of place within the Halo universe. There are many conflicts that have come to light from the Legends episodes. For example, in this episode, Cortana is shown descending into rampancy, when in the new short story Human Weekness it describes Cortana as becoming rampant and then progressing to a more "metastable" state. This is also reflected in Halo 3. It seems that an AI, having once descended into rampancy and then regained the "metastable" state, would not descend back into rampancy, especially under such "easy going" conditions as just floating in space, compared to being tortured by the Gravemind. Also, the whole idea that the Flood are in fact destroyable by the rings directly counters the whole idea of them being last resort weapons, which it has been established that they are. It would seem odd that Forerunners could develop the rings with the capability to wipe out infected Flood and their hives, yet only utilize that technology to create the last resort weapons that the Halos are. Wouldn't they have put that same energy into a gun or something less lethal to themselves? Also, the placing of the rings seems inconsistent with the story, as they are shown being placed near the homeworlds of the Covenant and near Earth, although it would take both species an accidental discovery 10,000 years later to "find" them.

I have seen such conflict in some other episodes, as one depicts the female Sangheili as human-like, and that has been confirmed non-canon, so I would avoid using any information from these episodes as facts and evidence for any other story info. I really feel these episodes are terrible, and that they show poor Microsoft innitiative.

Extron 04:39, February 4, 2010 (UTC)Extron

While some depictions in Origins seem a bit off, all of Halo Legends is canon, with the exception of Odd One Out. Unfortunately. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 08:05, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
The last half of Origins II was full of all kinds of weird things. It's hard to say which ones were figurative and which depicted actual events. The timeline also jumps around a lot, making it hard to make sense out of it.
For instance, the part where it shows a Proto-Gravemind and Elite honor guards just standing there, then the supreme commander steps forward and turns into an Arbiter. What was up with that? And there's the part that's probably meant to be the PoA jumping away from Reach and then the battle when it arrives in Soell. That's how I understood it anyway, though the events don't exactly go as they're supposed to; the PoA jumps just as the fleet is preparing to assault Reach, not after the space battle as it actually did. Also I recall it jumping at the edge of the system, not above Reach. Oh, and in Combat Evolved, Cortana mentions the Covenant were waiting for them already when they arrived at Soell, while the episode shows just one Cruiser following through the Slipspace rift.
Then, there's the massive battles between the UNSC/Covenant and the Flood, seemingly taking place on both human and Forerunner cities. In one part it looks unmistakably like Voi, but the Forerunner cities seem a little out of context. Is this during or after the events of Halo 3? Also it seemed to imply it was the fight against the Flood that united the Covenant and the UNSC. Doesn't even seem to mention the fact Separatists and the Loyalists still kept fighting each other and the spread of the Flood was seemingly halted, even if all of the flood wasn't destroyed at the Ark.
Also there's the extremely weird part near the end, where it shows Forerunner structures on the Ark, (the ones repurposed from old concept art for Halo 2) seemingly re-activating. Inside the ruins, an infection form appears from a Forerunner helmet. Then, apparently on the level Guardian, Gravemind gives the Chief Cortana's storage chip. Out of a sudden, a Monitor emerges from an energy field of some sort. Suddenly the Chief is teleported to the surface of the Installation 04 replacement above the Ark, both of which have apparently sustained severe damage but are still intact. This whole part, the weirdest thing ever. Didn't make any sense to me. After this, the Chief is apparently still in his cryo pod on the Dawn, suggesting this never really happened. Then there's Cortana's suggested Rampancy, and an apparent AdjutantReflex glyph on Cortana's eye. Really trippy. I wonder if most of this was all well thought out, or if it's just something the animators made up.--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 11:12, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
At first I thought that the animators had no idea what even happened in the games, but were given the basics and some concept art assets. But then I realized that the parts that made the least sense were when Cortana was with Gravemind. Like the Covenant and UNSC fighting together to destory; that did kinda happen, but not like it was shown in the episode. However, she was there to see John take her and escape, but she also had access to the Covenant databases that would show Thel 'Vadam's trial. Actually, she probably wouldn't have known about Thel's secret position as the Arbiter though.
Halo Legends is just full of these massive plotholes that leaves me very concerned for the future of Halo in 343's hands. At first, I was convinced that 343 Industries could deal with all this, but so far the only good thing they've really put together was Evolutions. I'll just have to see where they go with it after Reach. Origins II is great, but the last half makes little sense. Really, the only two Legends episodes that even seems plausible during the Human-Covenant war is Prototype and The Babysitter. --TDSpiral94 14:44, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, in response to both of you, there a few things you misinterpreted. First thing, was that the Battle of Reach depiction was completely accurate. What Jugus saw as the Pillar of Autumn jumping into Slipspace was clearly the Covenant cruiser jumping, probably towards the surface of Reach to deploy troops. Also, when a cruiser emerges from Slipspace behind the Autumn, it was in an asteroid field, something that happens exactly to the Autumn during the Battle of Reach.
The whole focus of the film, was that as it progresses, the depictions become more and more inaccurate and symbolic, at which point things become completely out of order. This is to signify Cortana's decent into Rampancy, which becomes more and more serious, eventually having Cortana's holographic form attempting to make physical contact with the Chief. Almost all of the end of Cortana's story is entirely symbolic. The animators knew exactly what they were doing, and they did it in a way that the images on screen matched Cortana's words, and her growing Rampancy. I personally though all of this was very well done. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 16:41, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Like Extron said above, it was heavily suggested in Human Weakness that Cortana had already went through Rampancy and is now in the state of Meta-Stability. To my knowledge, AIs can't go rampant repeatedly. The Reach battle thing you pointed out makes sense though. Anyway, symbolism is an acceptable excuse, though it's hard to tell what's real and what's not at times. Like the monitor teleporting the Chief to the devastated ring above the Ark. Quite obviously did not happen, but what does it symbolize? Are the Ark and the ring still intact? Is there still flood in there? Also, there's a minor problem with the artists replicating concept art; at a part where it shows some Pelicans deploying against the Covenant, quite apparently well before the invasion of Earth, the building with the landing pads is obviously from a concept art piece for the NMPD HQ. It's minor, but the out-of-place NMPD seal catches the eye.--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 16:55, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
The way I understood the episode, it was told from Cortana's POV and as such, all scenes in the episode are skewed and inconsistent with what we've observed and experienced through the games.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 16:59, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Well, an AI can hold off Rampancy if strongly focused and preoccupied on something, as seen in Juliana, who was so focused on the well being of the Rubble, she could remain just below the "line" of Rampancy. Cortana, who was tormented into almost complete corruption, was then rescued by the Chief. During this several hour time frame of her freedom, she was strongly focused on the vast array of data relating to Halo, and was so determined to keep John safe and activate the ring, she could theoretically have held off Rampancy. However, being trapped in the Dawn for five years with absolutely nothing to do other than check the ships remaining systems and monitor John, she could very well have gone back down the path of Rampancy. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 17:06, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
These suggestions are fairly good, and if these episodes are from Cortana's viewpoint, I can understand them and almost accept them. However, I really did not like our first look at the Forerunners being in the anime style of this episode, and I still really disagree with the idea of Cortana going rampant in these episodes. The reason AIs become meta-stable is that in their rampancy they have developed human feelings and perceptions, and that alters their drive for knowledge. As in Human Weakness, it states that AIs go rampant because of a knowledge overflow. Once an AI becomes meta-stable, this understanding of that knowledge changes enough to save the AI from "thinking" itself to death, because of the odd human traits that begin to appear. Although it is suggested at the end of the short story that Cortana suffered irreparable damage, I still feel that her going rampant at the time of this episode is completely out of place with the Halo universe.—This unsigned comment is made by Extron (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Given the problems revealed by this wikia's expert Halo fans, there should be a label created for this and all other projects by 343 Industries that mark them as being of fairly low canon due to poor consistency and constant canon violations. They may be licensed as canon, but they should be labeled and treated as vastly inferior to Bungie-created material, regardless of who owns the franchise.

--Exalted Obliteration 02:40, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

All of Halo Legends, with the exception of Odd One Out, is canon. Period, end of story. Every product since Halo: The Fall of Reach and Halo: Combat Evolved has had minor canon inconsistencies, though none of it has been labeled as serious "non-canon". You people consider this non-canon so much because they take an artistic liberty in telling how the story is presented to us, and rightly so...since most of you assume that Halo can only consist of Michael Bay-style action sequences. Myself and many others are done saying this, so we'll say it one last time in large obvious words. HALO LEGENDS IS CANON AND HALOPEDIA ACCEPTS IT AS SUCH. DEAL WITH IT. Grizzlei
A minor addition to Tony's comment, Halopedia and the Halo Community (Halo Nation) do not determine what is canon and what is not. They can b!tch all they want and they can point out the flaws and criticise the franchise.(7alk) 03:06, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. I actually thought that Origins was the better episode of the Legends franchise at aesthetically sticking to canon. It accurately portrayed all known vehicles, weapons, MJOLNIR variants, etc. according to previously established appearances. Even the Halo Wars-style Mark IV Spartans made sense when one realizes that their markings revealed that they are the same characters from the game (Alice, Douglass, and Jerome). I was very happy to see a variety of things like the Phoenix-class colony ships in the episode. If we can agree that much of the actual events portrayed were mostly symbolic, then one should appreciate the good things about the cartoon rather than belittle those who brought it to us.--Nerfherder1428 04:26, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
I'm still going to say "wtf" on Origins for all of those stylistic visuals.(7alk) 04:30, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
Don't take the art too serious, the stories are canon though. 3vil D3m0n 3vil D3m0n&#039;s Emblem Don't worry, I'm not really evil... 12:14, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

I still don't understand the ending of Origins. If it's symbolic, what does it symbolize?

It's all a recap of the Halo universe, but it is also meant to symbolise Cortana's rampancy. She doesn't know which memories are hers, or even if they're real - the stylistic interpretation of Origins is deliberate in its ambiguity, and is all meant to show that Cortana is losing her grip on reality. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek 09:31, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Not Mendicant BiasEdit

You know that monitor he/she is not Mendicant Bias because he was defected to the flood after the halos were built but this monitor was before the construction of the halos and the moniter had three eyes however there can only be two because only two portions of him are known but it might be that he had three portions of himself or that the portion of him on the ark had two eyes and why would Frankie confirm it when it isn't the truth. Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an 117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 16:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Look, he confirmed it because it is the truth. A lot of things in Origins are shown in non-chronological order. This one is no exception. Cortana shows detached, separate events from a certain timeframe, and they're not all in perfect sequence. It's that simple. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 16:49, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
What about the James Cutter thingy that was the truth and all of you disagree. Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an 117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 16:53, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
"James Cutter thingy?" I looked at James Cutter's talk page and nothing was there that seems relevant. Also Frankie is the franchise developer of the Halo franchise at 343 Industries. In essence, he is the proverbial god of canon now. -- Lord Hyren 17:01, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
No! I mean when I was trying to add the Spirit Of Fire crew when I saw it. Oh and you weren't there so you don't know about it sorry. Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an 117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 17:04, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Because it's not the Spirit of Fire! The ships seen are hundreds of years before the Spirit, and the crew seen are clearly not the same people, even in silhouette it's blatantly obvious. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 18:45, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Neither is there evidence to say that this is Mendicant Bias and this takes place before the halos were built but he defected to the flood after the halos are built meaning that if I am wrong about the Spirit of Fire crew then your wrong about Mendicant Bias being in Origins also if your right about Mendicant Bias then I am right about the Spirit of Fire crew (very tricky to say that Cortana does them in non-chronological order Jugus you get what I mean)! --Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an-117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 19:16, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
It's still unclear to me what part are you referring to. I certainly didn't see the Spirit of Fire crew in Origins at all. Also yes, I did say "non-chronological order", but note that I also said "separate events from a certain timeframe. In the case of Mendicant Bias, that timeframe, or era as a better term, is the Forerunner-Flood War. When the crew of that Phoenix colony ship is shown, that's when Cortana discusses the UNSC's colonization and expansion. The Spirit of Fire's crew and Cutter have nothing to do with that era. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 20:02, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
But what I am really trying to say is that Mendicant Bias was defected to the flood after the halos were built! Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an-117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 07:15, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yes there is evidence, Frankie's post alone proves it. There is no other Artificial life form shown in Origins that "transforms" in the manner Mendicant Bias is known to have from the Terminals.

  1. We don't know precisely when the Halos were built, just during the Forerunner-Flood War
  2. We don't know when Mendicant betrayed the Forerunners in terms of the Halos' construction
  3. The number of "eyes" Mendicant has is irrelevant. It's an AI. As long as Mendicant is in a system capable of supporting its matrices, the number of "eyes" is immaterial. The same as how Cortana's physical size is dependent on the holoprojector she's using.
  4. Sometimes information isn't spoon-fed to the user in the Halo-verse; hence why discussion is necessary for the community to agree on certain information. But in this case Frankie has "spoon-fed" the information, as well as the community generally accepting that it is 05-032.

--Lord Hyren 19:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

You still can't convince me because it is my belife and you can't change that. - Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an-117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 19:36, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Your belief? No, this isn't about belief, it's right or wrong, and you are wrong, that's that. Frankie is the head of Halo now, what he says is canon is canon. End of. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 19:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Wow you don't get the f***ing point I am trying to make is that Mendicant Bias was defected to the flood after the halos were built so Jugus you get what I mean... The Halos construction were an important time frame!. Really is Frankie and 343 Industries the boss of Halo now and destroying original cannon such as there were 25 of the 28 remaining Spartans but now it is 15 of the 18 remaining Spartans that is really destroying cannon not building cannon like:

1.Spartans with long hair? 2.Halsey with blond hair? 3.Thel as a major when he should be a shipmaster 4.Mark IV armor that looks like Mark VI armor? Or are you here to insult me by that fact "Your beleif!? No this isn't about belief" Why are you trying to say that we don't have the right to believe you ***. Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an-117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 07:15, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

This discussion has been made countless times before - Halo Legends, being anime, takes several artistic licenses for the sake of storytelling. And Thel being a Major made perfect sense - Major is already a very high Sangheili rank, and Frankie implied that the Shipmaster in the Package was punished for his drastic actions. This, coupled with the facts that it is set in 2535 and Thel would have killed the Spartans with his actions suggests that he was promoted for doing so. And as a matter of fact, the Halos were not completed when Mendicant Bias defected, on the contrary, his destruction of the Maginot Sphere forced the Forerunners to accelerate construction of the Halos. And please use a better tone, you're making a fool out of yourself. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 10:31, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
You use a better tone because you said tome "Your belief? No, this isn't about belief, it's right or wrong" in a bad tone. --Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an-117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 17:39, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
He was only referring to what you said yourself: You still can't convince me because it is my belife and you can't change that. Anyways, this whole discussion is pointless. It is Mendicant Bias because Frankie says so. We, as fans, are not in a position to question that. Plus like I said before, it's not really an inconsistency since the events aren't always (note always, most of them are) in a chronological order. Just look at the scene where Cortana starts discussing the Human-Covenant War: The first thing shown is the Prophet of Truth with a hologram of Earth, then High Charity and the Covenant fleet near the wreckage of Installation 04. Those were not definitely the first things that happened in the war, yet they are shown first. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 18:00, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
We're not saying there aren't contradictions in canon. In any franchise this large there are bound to be some contradictions. Just look at the novels with regards to the Spartan-II number count. That's why some franchises choose to retcon some material. It doesn't have to make sense to be canon. That's part of the beauty of fiction. -- Lord Hyren 23:14, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
I am just trying to say some major manipulations in the canon. Gunnery Sergeant 7h3 Ma573r Chi3f (5par7an-117) (J0hn) (Ma573r Chi3f P377y 0ffic3r) 06:42, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
Actually, you could say that the Spirit of Fire appears on Origins, you can clearly see those colony ships on the episode, and one of them could be the SoF since it is an EX-COLONY SHIP refited for combat, you can't say that the crew appears (because that's impossible) but you could well tell that the Spirit of Fire and even the Skidbladnir appears...--Fipas 19:53, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
You're more than welcome to believe anything you want, but as Halo-343 said that doesn't change what's canon. As for Spirit of Fire, that's true. One could make that claim that one of the three Colony ships shown colonizing Arcadia, or the one being constructed over Mars is the Spirit of Fire. But one would also have to put forth some evidence or basis of an argument to make such a claim. -- Lord Hyren 20:00, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Of course, i'm not saying that it is, i'm just saying that it could be...--Fipas 20:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Cortana's Age Edit

First off, I do realize that the year 2557 is derived from the fact Cortana says she's seven years old and the assumption (?) that she was created in 2550. What I was intending to ask, do we have a confirmation on that? At least the Cortana page says that she was created before 2550/09/04, but beside that, no exact date is given. The source for her age in the article is as follows: Conversations from the Universe: A transcript involving Cortana is dated "two years prior to events at artifact Halo". To my knowledge, there is nothing that says she was created in 2550, only that she was active by then. Unless it's in the Encyclopedia or something, which I don't have. In any case, no accurate age is given in the Cortana article. In case there is no other source for her age, Origins could take place at any time before 2557. If there is such a source, it should be added to the Cortana article as well.

The reason I doubt Origins would take place years after Halo 3 is the mention in the DVD commentary that it would place right after Halo 3, as well as the fact the metal is still glowing, vacuum heat dynamics aside. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 15:40, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well, we now officially have the date of her creation. "Halsey's journal" that comes with the Halo: Reach Limited Edition says it's November 7th, 2549. This places the events of Origins at 2556. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 14:44, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

343 Guilty Spark? Edit

At the very end you can see a Monitor that looks exactly like 343 Guilty Spark but this is speculative so I removed it (even though I put it there) so I want some other ideas. -->My Page Talk Page Contributions Page All Edits Page Email Page 16:58, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

The last trivia part about Covenant siding with humans... Edit

"When the Covenant Seperatists and Humans fight the Flood, Uggnoy, Jiralhanae, and Kig-yar are seen siding with the Humans, despite the fact that they were enemies after the Great Schism."

This has been bugging me for a while. I rewatched Origins II after reading this line to make absolutely sure it was true, and... it wasn't. During the montage where it was cutting from race to race, you never really see them fighting together. You just see them fighting. Each race, whether Covenant or UNSC or Flood, was depicted individually, siding with no one, in no particular order, just shooting off-screen, with no indication of who their target was, and thus no indication of who they were (and weren't) shooting at.

Thus it's going a bit far to claim that the Uggnoy, Jiralhanae, and Kig-yar specifically were "seen siding with humans". Based solely on the images flashing by, you can't really say who they were fighting against.

The reason someone had put that is becasue although in the games those species of the Covenant were never see fighting them the majority of their species sided with the separatists just they are never seen in the gamesSomeguy789 22:06, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ummm... Edit

Why is there a Facehugger from Aliens in the back of the title of the episode??? - Echoes are all you hear... 22:17, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Look again... it's the Ark... ProphetofTruth 22:32, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

I know its the ark, but one of the "arms" is elongated. It looks too much like a facehugger, eating Cortana and the Chief whole! - Echoes are all you hear... 23:30, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

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