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  • In Halo 4, grunts and elites are changed byt they look the same as their origional discription, just with storm armor. Yet the jackal looks COMPLETLY different! They look like raptors instead of parrots now. Could it be a subspecies like the skrimisher? Why?

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    • There is no known explanation for this besides the fact that 343 screwed up, big time, in creating these designs

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    • Yeah, they're a different species of the Kig-Yar genus. And they look pretty damn scary.

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    • While some people see the changing of the Jackals as a failure, I actually really liked the "evolution" of them. And, to be honest, I actually did think of it as evolution when I saw previews of them. I doubt that all species evolve at the same rate, and I wondered if Jackals began evolving to war. Plus, the parrot description fits the pirating lifestyle they had before the Human/Covenant war. During and after it, I wouldn't be surprised if they evolved a bit into these raptor forms to adapt better to the combat situations.


      Doesn't make them any less of cannon fodder, though.

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    • I think there a new subspicies because jackals colonized in other planets so the jackals in that planet must have changed to adapt to the environment and then join the storm covenant, and that's what I jackals are different

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    • they are a subspecies and come they old jackals just looked weird and BUNGIE, not 343 introduced skirmishers, a type of jackal that was not a jackal. so why couldnt 343 do the same?

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    • The Halo 4 Essential Visual Guide has confirmed that most Storm Jackals are from the isolated continent of Ibie'sh on Eayn, which seems a little like a different "race" of Kig-Yar, if you will (or just a sub species). Sanokal K-T (talk) 19:25, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

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    • Like African-Americans or Asians. 

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    • Maybe. It depends on how different a group is to another, I think. Race-wise, the main morphological differences in humans are generally averages in build, facial structure, height, and skin colour. The Jackals, on the other hand have a far different facial structure between normal and Storm/Ibie'sh, though the differences seems to be limited to snout length and temperent. There's also an odd joining of the jaws, where they hinge is a more exposed fleshy bit, which is a fair bit different. It might be a contentious issue, but likening the differences to between different human races probably isn't a farfetched statement. Sanokal K-T (talk) 21:57, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

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    • Tell me about it, but Grunts look very diffrent, Jackals and Grunts look like Reptiles, unlike their original Avian and Arthrapod Apperance and Grunts have....But Cheeks... But if they are from a diffrent place on Eyan, it still makes no scene, because they were bound to be seen and how the hell did the Covenant Remnant get to Eyan and recruit some new Jackals, and what do they have to goin when the Remanants Soul Purpose is to wipe out Humanity?

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    • Jackals and Grunt are an odd case with classification, and technically, because life on their planets went a WHOLE different way to ours, they can't be classified by our standards. The armour and the fact that Grunts are more exposed is the main difference for them. It actually does make sense, it's not that Ibie'sh, while isolated now, is the sole reason for them not being encountered now, it's just why they are different. The main reason they're likely with the Remnant as opposed to other Jackals is their more vicious temperament, as the "standard" Jackals never had anything to gain besides money and power (and avoiding being made extinct by the original Covenant) originally. Given the goal of 'Mdama to wipe out humanity with only a shade of the former Covenant, the less bloodthirsty are probably doubting his chances. And don't forget, the Jackals are a space-faring race, so even if the Remnant didn't go and recruit them (which is likely what happened), they could have stumbled upon the Remnant (the initial numbers) and either joined up or been coerced. It's also possible that 'Mdama only wants more bloodthristy and ruthless individuals in the Remnant, though that last bit is speculation. Whew. Sanokal K-T (talk) 02:25, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

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    • I think the grunts are mutants. The new jackals are like Skirmishers. But the elites are also very different.

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    • The Elites aren't actually that different when it comes down to it. It's mainly graphical differences. When you compare a picture of Gek and unarmoured 'Vadam, you can see the similarities, despite the graphical overhaul. The change actually started in Reach, to make the Covenant seem like a massive threat again by making them more animalistic, and progressed in 4. It'll be interesting to see the mix in their next appearance.

      The Grunts can be a difficult one. The main difference is their faces. Previously, they hadn't been shown with as much detail, though this is argueably a graphical limitation, especially as they were intended to be hidden behind their rebreathers. Although I certainly think that more vicious individuals are in Halo 4, same with th Jackals, but they're not that different, really.

      Sanokal K-T (talk) 02:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

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    • If all of these are new "subspecies", then they should be called such. Skrimmishes and Jackals are completely different yet in Halo 4, even though the Elites, Grunts, and Jackals look different, they are still refered to as the same species. Either 343 needs to change them back to what they use to look like or they need to explain the change. To me, the Elites look to bunky, even kind of brutish. The jackals look more like raptors and the grunts have fat heads. 

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    • That's the thing though - they have explained the changes (well, for Jackals), as I pointed out in my first post. Admittedly though, it took a while.

      The "fatness" of their heads seems to be mainly due to their helmets, which are completely different from any previous Grunt headgear.

      And, I'll agree with the Elites, although hopefully by the time we have human-aliied Elites they'll have settled on a middle ground - still somewhat primal and threatening, but with the higher intellegence. The 4 Elites are done quite well when they speak, though that's largely due to those particular individuals being, as you described "brutish".

      Sanokal K-T (talk) 04:24, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

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    • To DMR4LIFE: I agree with you with most of what you said, but I'm not sure if grunts have fatter heads, but their heads do look like that of a Sharks, and the Grunts and Jackals don't resemble Bungie's design as much as they should, Grunts especially, if I wasn't told they were grunts I would never have guessed, the Jackals I probably would have guessed...Eventually.

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    • Well thank you Arigro 'Vadum and Sanokal K-T for your insight and helping me expand my knowledge of the Halo Universe. Me calling the Eiltes "brutish" is the fact they appear more bulkier then in previous games. I am use to the slimmer ones, not ones that appeared they spent three years lifting weights at the gym getting ready for Halo 4. 

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    • @DMR$LIFE: You're most welcome. You never know, they did spend three years outside Requiem, they would have had a lot of spare time.

      Sanokal K-T (talk) 19:42, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

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    • My brother told me that the Storm Jackals came from an isolated continent on Eayn, which makes sense, because the Jackals came from the North of Eayn I think and the Skirmishers came from the South, so they both evolved to suit the environment I guess. Besides I love the look of the jackals and grunts. In my opinion the jackals are fine because of the explanation I was told, as for the grunts, I frankly don't care, I just know I like the new ones more. Makes them more vicious and easier to kill (Feeling less bad by killing the cute grunts).

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    • John'Zero'Smith wrote: My brother told me that the Storm Jackals came from an isolated continent on Eayn, which makes sense, because the Jackals came from the North of Eayn I think and the Skirmishers came from the South, so they both evolved to suit the environment I guess. Besides I love the look of the jackals and grunts. In my opinion the jackals are fine because of the explanation I was told, as for the grunts, I frankly don't care, I just know I like the new ones more. Makes them more vicious and easier to kill (Feeling less bad by killing the cute grunts).

      Your brother is correct on that.

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    • I reckon there are just different continents on their home world that have different climates and terrains so the subspecies evolved to cope with each environment.


      Skirmishers-cooler climate more adapted to living in trees

      Raptor looking ones-warmer climate more adapted to living on the ground

      The first jackals-humid climate adapted to living trees

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    • And to the other comments about the grunts and elites looking different as well the elites probably went thro more training and might be a subspecies like this migth sound racist but like black and white people and it might be that there is a subspecies of grunt to dont get up me for this comment

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    • hmm.. i am a biologist and in my point of view, it makes sense that the two (Ibiesh and Normal Jackal) would look entirely different.  I mean, it happens in real life. A perfect example would be the finch (see Charles Darwin's study on these birds) wherein sub species and even new species arose due to isolation of some of these birds on different environments hence, the change on beak size and eating habits. So, this might be the case with the jackals. I really love halo btw. :)

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    • 180.191.111.53 wrote:
      hmm.. i am a biologist and in my point of view, it makes sense that the two (Ibiesh and Normal Jackal) would look entirely different.  I mean, it happens in real life. A perfect example would be the finch (see Charles Darwin's study on these birds) wherein sub species and even new species arose due to isolation of some of these birds on different environments hence, the change on beak size and eating habits. So, this might be the case with the jackals. I really love halo btw. :)

      THE BIOLOGIST HAS SPOKEN

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    • 149.12.7.137 wrote:

      180.191.111.53 wrote:
      hmm.. i am a biologist and in my point of view, it makes sense that the two (Ibiesh and Normal Jackal) would look entirely different.  I mean, it happens in real life. A perfect example would be the finch (see Charles Darwin's study on these birds) wherein sub species and even new species arose due to isolation of some of these birds on different environments hence, the change on beak size and eating habits. So, this might be the case with the jackals. I really love halo btw. :)

      THE BIOLOGIST HAS SPOKEN

      bow down to science bitches

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    • Just to back up the whole Sub-Species thing. It was confirmed in Mortal Dictata, though it was already obvious.

      "Kig-Yar weren't canine. Despite the nickname most humans used-Jackals. Their ancestors were reptiles. Some sub-species still looked very lizard like to Staffan, but other were more like birds, just the way Earth's lizards branched off to form feathers and beaks."-Halo: Mortal Dictata, page 59

      That also explains the grunts.  Honestly, i like the new art direction 343i went in. I thought they looked the best so far.

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    • I love the new Jackals, so much more threatening, but I don't like the new Elites.

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    • SuperVegito1229 wrote: I love the new Jackals, so much more threatening, but I don't like the new Elites.

      Your kidding right??? is that a joke??? how can you love the new jackals when your eyes are awestruck by my majestic beauty? PR6pQUj.png

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    • I was warned this would happen!

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    • The short answer=Graphics

      Longer answer involves some shit about new atrist and stuff.....i dont want to get into that

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    • they came from an isolated continent.

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    • @Dino Like the skirmishers.

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    • ???

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    • Like they came from a cooler continent, hence more feathers.

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    • I still say I'm far more hansom like then they are.

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    • Nah, Dino-Jackals beat you easy.

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    • They do noooot:(

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    • They'll rip your throat out.

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    • and grunts will snack on your face! :)

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    • Sorry, its been more then a hour and the best come back I can think of is to say they are ugly compared to me again. Indeed they are the more vishuse and savage of the breeds, and I would like to keep my thought in thank you. But weather or not I can beat them with just better skill, not worth finding out just to prove, I have better things to do.

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    • Dinosaur1995 wrote: and grunts will snack on your face! :)

      Din't see that one earlier. Ya death by grunts would indeed be the most humiliating way to die, and they know it. That's why their heads explode into confide when you shoot them.

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    • In fact, for even sujesting that I, the greatest kig-yar pirate in the galaxy will die at the hands of meer simple minded grunts, I think i'll reward you with a video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvoNLVaJuBI

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    • bigger heads=easier targets.

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    • Lord of the STARS
      Lord of the STARS removed this reply because:
      Naaaa, I don't need this post. changed my mind.
      18:44, April 17, 2014
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    • Lord of the STARS wrote:

      ) that is true, and the dino kig-yar have a head shaped like a great big...... wait, was that a joke about my ego?

      no

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    • Ya only deleated that because I caught on quickly.

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    • unshielded/armored heads are also easyer targets, as well as heads belonging to one who is slow and clumsy.

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    • Lord of the STARS wrote: Ya only deleated that because I caught on quickly.

      ok

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    • I'm really going to start missing Skirmishers if 343i don't decide on bringing them back.

      Skirmishers have a much more dinosaurian look than their Jackal cousins

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    • I do like the skirmishers.

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    • normal jackals where scary always poping out of nowhere to kill you. the skirmisher was a menis more then enything always in the way (a roadblock if you will). butt these new jackals make me crap myself. i mean come on the Alite's,Brutes and Hunters in halo 1,2,and 3 were bad enuff but now we've got a dam jackal lizerd to thay should think about puting a warning on the case ( WARNING befor playing make shore to have a fresh change of undrwere on hand incase of an emergancy...ps do not play after dark in the dark...results may vary.)          


      enyway i still think the jackal should have stayed to the origional design you know to keep that classic feeling to the game?

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    • Hey halo 4 jackals, did you know that japan has bought you from the u.s.a. just so they can have the real Godzilla destroy you like its nothing?

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    • Lord of the STARS wrote:
      Hey halo 4 jackals, did you know that japan has bought you from the u.s.a. just so they can have the real Godzilla destroy you like its nothing?

      The new Jackals really do have Zilla-esque (or Dinosaurian-like) heads that makes them look highly completely different from the already established Jackals of the Original Trilogy.

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    • You know what? I should really stop abusing them. They are still Kig-yar, and I have no reason not to treat them as such.

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    • Yeah its kinda like being racist in the human society but tao'vans are taller and faster and although ibe'sh are stronger there big heads and eyes are big targets,also a tao'van could literally put his hand on the ibe'sh's head and keep him there then punch him in the eye.

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    • forget the kig yar! why are the elites slimy now!?!?!?

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    • You may as well ask why do some people have red hair, or dark skin, or are tall with a beard.

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    • was I asking you? no.

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    • LOL

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    • thanks

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    • In terms of design, they're like that to make them more animalistic and more threatening foes. In terms of appearance, it makes them much more intimidating than the Halo 1 and 2 Elites (and thus the melding of that animalistic appearance and their redone armour is pure perfection.) This is also why the Jackals are as they are in terms of design.

      Besides, like I said up top, compare them with the Arbiter unmasked in Halo 2. They're really not that different.

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    • the sangheili are not animalistic savages, your confusing them with brutes. the sangheili are a proud and noble people.

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    • I know that. Not every Sangheili is so noble, just look at Ripa Moramee. Besides, proud doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't animalistic. It's more of a case of them being more alien, I think. Trust me when I say that there is no way in hell I'm confusing them with Brutes.

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    • first 343i uglyfyed the unggoy and kig yar, then the prophets and elites and brutes, only the drones, hunters, and huragok have managed to escape. but for how long?

      and watch your language! little eyes could be here...

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    • Dinosaur1995 wrote: the sangheili are not animalistic savages, your confusing them with brutes. the sangheili are a proud and noble people.

      Proud and noble and guilty of committing a genocide worse than anything yet seen in human history.

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: was I asking you? no.

      Well too bad, I went and answered anyway. Don't be such a whiny little bitch about it.

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    • Hunters will be fine. Engineers should be fine, they're a woobie species. Drones, eh, they might make their head and limbs more nasty.

      Sorry bout that. You'd think little minds shouldn't be here though.

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    • Karl-591 wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: the sangheili are not animalistic savages, your confusing them with brutes. the sangheili are a proud and noble people.

      Proud and noble and guilty of committing a genocide worse than anything yet seen in human history.

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: was I asking you? no.

      Well too bad, I went and answered anyway. Don't be such a whiny little bitch about it.

      1. don't forget we ubbernuked a sangheili colony. and blew up one of their command stations. AND supplied them with weapons to kill each other, just so we could sit back and relax.

      2. I am not a whiny little @#$%#&^. ok? when did these threads become so hostile?

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    • Neither side is great, but remember that this was ONI's idea. And the human genocide was the decision of the Prophets. Please don't argue. It's just not productive. Besides, the thread has been answered for a while now, so continue this discussion elsewhere, please.

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    • how long have you been here? just wondering.

      and p.s. arguing is all we do here ;)

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    • Dinosaur1995 wrote:

      Karl-591 wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: the sangheili are not animalistic savages, your confusing them with brutes. the sangheili are a proud and noble people.

      Proud and noble and guilty of committing a genocide worse than anything yet seen in human history.

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: was I asking you? no.

      Well too bad, I went and answered anyway. Don't be such a whiny little bitch about it.

      1. don't forget we ubbernuked a sangheili colony. and blew up one of their command stations. AND supplied them with weapons to kill each other, just so we could sit back and relax.

      2. I am not a whiny little @#$%#&^. ok? when did these threads become so hostile?

      If by "übernuked" you mean the NOVA, we were not the ones to actually set that off. We planned to, but we ultimately didn't. Unyielding Hierophant was a legitimate military target. And I never said humanity was proud and noble and all that rot; if we feel we need to fight dirty, we fight dirty.

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    • Dinosaur1995 wrote:
      how long have you been here? just wondering.

      and p.s. arguing is all we do here ;)


      This thread, the threads in general, or the wiki?

      I have no problem with properly constructed arguements, but swearing at one another just creates strife. (That said, my definition of swearing is a bit wonky.)

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    • Karl-591 wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote:

      Karl-591 wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: the sangheili are not animalistic savages, your confusing them with brutes. the sangheili are a proud and noble people.

      Proud and noble and guilty of committing a genocide worse than anything yet seen in human history.

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: was I asking you? no.

      Well too bad, I went and answered anyway. Don't be such a whiny little bitch about it.

      1. don't forget we ubbernuked a sangheili colony. and blew up one of their command stations. AND supplied them with weapons to kill each other, just so we could sit back and relax.

      2. I am not a whiny little @#$%#&^. ok? when did these threads become so hostile?

      If by "übernuked" you mean the NOVA, we were not the ones to actually set that off. We planned to, but we ultimately didn't. Unyielding Hierophant was a legitimate military target. And I never said humanity was proud and noble and all that rot; if we feel we need to fight dirty, we fight dirty.

      um, we did set off the nova, or at least we made the nova and then some huragok set it off.

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    • Sanokal K-T wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote:
      how long have you been here? just wondering.

      and p.s. arguing is all we do here ;)


      This thread, the threads in general, or the wiki?

      I have no problem with properly constructed arguements, but swearing at one another just creates strife. (That said, my definition of swearing is a bit wonky.)

      the wiki.

      I don't swear. ive been here over a year and for months we (me, commando, and stars, and recently thel) didn't do anything but discuss (peacefully) aspects of the halo verse. then I leave for a couple of weeks, come back, and suddenly this place is jam packed with NOOBs. and for some reason tons of VS. threads.

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    • Dinosaur1995 wrote:

      Karl-591 wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote:

      Karl-591 wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: the sangheili are not animalistic savages, your confusing them with brutes. the sangheili are a proud and noble people.

      Proud and noble and guilty of committing a genocide worse than anything yet seen in human history.

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: was I asking you? no.

      Well too bad, I went and answered anyway. Don't be such a whiny little bitch about it.

      1. don't forget we ubbernuked a sangheili colony. and blew up one of their command stations. AND supplied them with weapons to kill each other, just so we could sit back and relax.

      2. I am not a whiny little @#$%#&^. ok? when did these threads become so hostile?

      If by "übernuked" you mean the NOVA, we were not the ones to actually set that off. We planned to, but we ultimately didn't. Unyielding Hierophant was a legitimate military target. And I never said humanity was proud and noble and all that rot; if we feel we need to fight dirty, we fight dirty.

      um, we did set off the nova, or at least we made the nova and then some huragok set it off.

      We built it, we made plans to use it, said plans were put on hold with the Fall of Reach, the Covies picked up the bomb and took it home with them, Engineers tinkered with it and ultimately set it off.

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    • but human hands made it. the deaths of countless millions of innocent sangheili are on our name. and who knows how many children died off the record of the SPARTAN program? but let use carry this somewhere else, shall we?

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    • Dinosaur1995
      Dinosaur1995 removed this reply because:
      cause.
      07:47, November 13, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Sanokal K-T wrote: In terms of design, they're like that to make them more animalistic and more threatening foes. In terms of appearance, it makes them much more intimidating than ......

      Wait, if you want them more animalistic make them more like humans, if you want them more threatening make them smart, and strategic, and tactical. Even a dog can figure that little problem out. And don't tell me humans aren't animalistic. Put a machedy on your belt, walk a few blocks down the street, don't unsheathe it, and see how long you live. If humans don't see it on your belt, doesn't count.

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    • Lord of the STARS wrote:

      Sanokal K-T wrote: In terms of design, they're like that to make them more animalistic and more threatening foes. In terms of appearance, it makes them much more intimidating than ......

      Wait, if you want them more animalistic make them more like humans

      ha! nice one.

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    • I gtg back to my real life real home, see you when their is internet their.

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    • ok! bye.

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    • It does make sense now. Honestly I hated them changing all the species before but now I think they need to just mix up the breeds. Think of them more as breeds then races. The Elites and Grunts are more like different races. Jackals differentiate as much as a dog. Compare a pug to a wolf. They truly are the same species despite what any one says as they can cross breed multiple times but they are as far appart in appearance as temperment. If you don't follow that logic replace wolf with either alasatian or German Sheppard.

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    • no, its a result of 343i turning all of the covenant species into slobbering monsters.

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    • Hey, that behavior during courtship isn't something we can help. Its perfectly natural.

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    • Dinosaur1995 wrote: no, its a result of 343i turning all of the covenant species into slobbering monsters.

      No, that was the result of their actions during the war. Have you seen Brutes or Jackals eating?

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    • Mal nutrition?

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    • Karl-591 wrote:

      Dinosaur1995 wrote: no, its a result of 343i turning all of the covenant species into slobbering monsters.

      No, that was the result of their actions during the war. Have you seen Brutes or Jackals eating?

      What dose the war have to do with this?

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    • Dinosaur1995 wrote:

      What dose the war have to do with this?

      Canonically speaking, you can't say something happens because the developers wanted it to be; an in-universe explanation has to be offered to remain consistant with that change.

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    • canologicly the sangheili looked the way they did because they had their face smashed by a window.

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    • The unggoy how ever had visited the lizard man from spider man and volunteered as test subjects, then volunteered to be killed by the master chief when they saw what they looked like. Their was a seen cut from the end of the game where a surviving unggoy says "you missed a spot."

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    • The hunters had eyes because they watched the movie jeepers creepers and decided "hey lets try that stealing peoples eyes thing, maby it will improve our combat performance."

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    • The storm jackals are a different race like the skirmishers in Reach. It's basically like humans. They look different like us. They could have colonized other worlds and adated to the different geography, or according to where they are from on their planet, the different regions most likely caused different facial features just like in humans.

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    • Kig-yar have colonized every continent on Eayn as well as all the asteroids and demi planets in the y'dio system and many covenant controlled planets and asteroids and have even gotten green cards on some human controlled areas. And being very subject to adaptation to envirment "jackals" skirmishers" "crockfaces" I guarantee you that's not even all that's out their.

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    • Couldn't just use one post?

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    •  
      108.206.142.229 wrote:
      In Halo 4, grunts and elites are changed byt they look the same as their origional discription, just with storm armor. Yet the jackal looks COMPLETLY different! They look like raptors instead of parrots now. Could it be a subspecies like the skrimisher? Why?

      I don't know why, probably because 343i had no idea what made the original Halo games' design so iconic.

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    • He's not gonna see your response. Know why? Because this thread was already dead three years ago.

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    • A FANDOM user
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