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  • Hello there fellow Wikians,

    Halo Nation currently utilises the talk page system, which has a prerequisite requirement that users understand the mechanics of using talk pages - e.g. know how to title and sign their messages, and what is an acceptable layout. This makes it difficult for new users and anonymous users who are not familiar with talk pages or standard wiki expectations. So I propose that we return to talk pages which auto sign messages, and will not allow a message to be posted without a title. This will prevent people having to go into the history file of their talk page to find out who had posted the message, and having to edit their talk page to correct anon/new user mistakes.

    For those who don't like the message wall and still want to keep on talk pages, it's possible to retain your talk page and redirect your message wall to you. Though I will admit I am not sure if the notifications will still pop up. For those unfamiliar with message walls, they are very similar to forums in terms of their set out. They have the user's avatar along with a title input box and message input box.

    This forum can be used as a discussion, or to show your support/opposition to the proposal through adding Support Support {{Support}} or Oppose Oppose {{Oppose}}.

    Kind regards,
    jLBGLKz.pngydxD7OL.png

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    • Support Support

      I like that idea. Simple. As. That.

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    • Support Support Yeah whatevs

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    • Oppose Oppose - I have used the message wall before, and must say I do not like it. Editing a user's talk page in the past makes their message wall automatically followed, which means a notification pops up whenever any new message is added to that user's wall. This is quite annoying since the only way to fix it is to go and manually "unfollow" the message wall. I'm sure most of the veteran users here have edited countless talk pages here (such as myself), and if the message walls are edited they get a notification. Also, once these forum threads which are similar to message walls get really long, they take quite a while to load even with a fast connection.

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    • Support Support

      Seems like a good idea. I like the idea of it being more newbie-friendly, so it's easier to navigate for all.

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    • 15px-Symbol neutral vote.svg

      Neutral I have used both and i will say it isn't as bad as it first rolled out. However i prefer talk pages. So neutrality!
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    • Support Support

      Seems good I guess :)

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    • It's not like I get many messages, anyway....  DefiantHeretic13 (talk) 04:44, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

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    • Support Support

      Yes. Yes. All of my yes.

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    • 15px-Symbol neutral vote.svg

      Neutral I don't really understand what this is saying but not sure if I will mind.
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    • Support Support

      It does get difficult to keep track of who posted what and when (and in reply to what) with the Talk Page format. I say this not knowing what a Message Wall is, but I like the thing on the Destiny wiki, maybe we should make it like that. As for User:Spartacus0898's concerns, Im sure we can provide an option or setting to take care of that.

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    • Strong Oppose Oppose - I spearheaded the effort to cease the useage of the Message board here on Halo Nation over a year ago. I've used the system on other sites, and it has not progressed much more from the way it is: it is still clunky, you still get notified when responces to your messages are sent: even if they do not pertain to you. They are essentially blogs on talkpages.

      T3CH, with due respect to your proposal, new users come to Halo Nation and they are expected to learn and integrate themselves into the systems in place here - we should not be modifying the system for the sole purpose of making it easier for new users to send messages. The talk page system is adequate - if not superior for this, as it allows for neater conversations with the ':' functions and the usage of custom signitures. More to that, new users need to learn to use basic wiki fonts and coding for articles they will be editing - talk pages are one place they can learn to utilize it better.

      Even making it an option for some users to take or not take, you said yourself in your proposal that you are unsure about if or if not notifications will still show up: if so, this breaks the system as communications between users will be lost.

      Effectively, I am very strongly against this proposal, for I feel it is detrimental to this Wikia and the effectiveness of discussions for users and articles. I feel the community needs to give this a long, hard and in depth look before making a call either way. I have - and I maintain my stance from the decision I and the community previously made to keep this wikia abomination off this wiki.

      Thank you for your time,

      Rainbow_Dash.pngRainbow Dash (Talk)(Contribs)   23:03, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

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    • Oppose Oppose - Per Spart, I find the message wall system rather annoying. I find that the talk pages are alot easier on formatting, as was the old forum system on large discussions.

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    • Support Support - I think that the message walls are a lot nicer than a normal Talk page also as for the complaints of notifications that still happens to me know aswelll as some other users so it ismt such a big deal.Lastly shouldn't we be making the wiki more accessible? Knightmare · [Talk]  02:41, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

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    • Hmm. I'm remaining a neutral party in this and only created this proposal to gain community opinion. As expected there is a clear divide in the community over the matter. I agree with those who oppose the message walls, talk pages are significantly more visually appealing and allow the use of Wiki special texts. However, I disagree with Leo's assumption that the wiki should be difficult to use for users in order to integrate them. You do not integrate users by making the wiki hard to use, you scare them off. The message wall is a simple method of communication for users new to the wiki which in turn allows for more efficient mentoring and correction of new user edits.

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    • User:Leo Fox said: "New users need to learn to use basic wiki fonts and coding for articles they will be editing - talk pages are the one place they can learn to utilise it better". I see that you have overlooked the Sandbox page.

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    • T3CHNOCIDE wrote: Hmm. I'm remaining a neutral party in this and only created this proposal to gain community opinion. As expected there is a clear divide in the community over the matter. I agree with those who oppose the message walls, talk pages are significantly more visually appealing and allow the use of Wiki special texts. However, I disagree with Leo's assumption that the wiki should be difficult to use for users in order to integrate them. You do not integrate users by making the wiki hard to use, you scare them off. The message wall is a simple method of communication for users new to the wiki which in turn allows for more efficient mentoring and correction of new user edits.

      I never said it should be more difficult for new users to learn to use the wikia, nor was an assumption made on my part of that nature. Please don't put words in my mouth or state as such, especially given the content of my message. The wiki, the way it is now, is still the way it was from the time of its inception. There is no reason to change what works adequately - or in the case of the talkpage as it is currently, very well. There is no way to make using the wiki harder to use at this time; and as it stands, using the wiki is not difficult. We expect new users to put in some legwork though to learn to use the wiki and to use the wikia coding. Case in point, they need to learn somewhere and talkpages are there as well to use. This is how you get them to integrate into the community: though ability to communicate while practicing using MediaWiki code, edit pages and become successful contributors. The message wall is an ugly feature that will not aid in new user's learning to use the site.

      MeswakSafari 1265 wrote: User:Leo Fox said: "New users need to learn to use basic wiki fonts and coding for articles they will be editing - talk pages are the one place they can learn to utilise it better". I see that you have overlooked the Sandbox page.

      I also overlooked mentioning any other page with an 'Edit' button, because new users can make changes to see how code works here and improve them, as I had believed that to be self-explanatory.

      Rainbow_Dash.pngRainbow Dash (Talk)(Contribs)   00:46, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

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    • Support Support Yes! It's a great Idea.

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    • Oppose Oppose  The current talk page system works fine and lends itself to good formatting. I see no good reason to change it.

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    • 15px-Symbol neutral vote.svg

      Neutral
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    • Agreed
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    • Oppose Oppose - The current system is fine guise :3

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    • Leo Fox wrote:
      More to that, new users need to learn to use basic wiki fonts and coding for articles they will be editing - talk pages are one place they can learn to utilize it better.

      Actually, you can switch between Visual and Source mode in Message Walls just like on user talk pages, with Visual being the standard by default. So really there's no difference to the learning of wikitext editing.

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    • Support Support Support

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    • Support Support I have used Message walls in the past, I like the format better than the message walls.

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    • Hell yeah! I.Like.The.Sound.Of.That.

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    • Oppose Oppose

      Certain users here have clearly fought hard to stay with the Talk Page format, and have good reason to.

      Don't fix something that isn't broken.

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    • Gameuser10 wrote:
      Oppose Oppose

      Certain users here have clearly fought hard to stay with the Talk Page format, and have good reason to.

      Don't fix something that isn't broken.

      That's hardly an argument. And no, no one "fought hard". They simply said "we don't like this" - it's not a civil rights protest.

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    • Gameuser10 wrote: Oppose Oppose

      Certain users here have clearly fought hard to stay with the Talk Page format, and have good reason to.

      Don't fix something that isn't broken.

      I'm not saying it's broken, I'm saying it needs improvements. And the message wall is that improvement. They fought to have the message walls removed previously because they were really buggy, now that's all been repaired.

      What the message walls offer us which talk pages don't, is when you leave a message on someone elses message wall and they reply to it, it warns you. In talk pages if you leave a message on someones talk page and they reply to that message, it doesn't give you any notifications. Instead they have to leave a message on your talk page creating two messy threads when there can be one. It also allows you to remove nasty messages and warn admins through a simple button, rather than having to contact the admin, wait for them to reply and give permission.

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    • T3CHNOCIDE wrote:

      I'm not saying it's broken, I'm saying it needs improvements. And the message wall is that improvement. They fought to have the message walls removed previously because they were really buggy, now that's all been repaired.

      I checked the discussion thread for it. One of the bigger issues was things they thought were bugs, but weren't. An example being subscribing to someone's thread and receiving notifications about its updates, only to forget that you followed it. The rest were people arguing that talk pages are better because it's easy to find the conversation you're having (which is really bad, given that you'd have a conversation potentially spread over two pages and then it'll be archives somewhere).

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    • I agree bring it back.

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    • T3CHNOCIDE wrote:

      What the message walls offer us which talk pages don't, is when you leave a message on someone elses message wall and they reply to it, it warns you. In talk pages if you leave a message on someones talk page and they reply to that message, it doesn't give you any notifications. Instead they have to leave a message on your talk page creating two messy threads when there can be one. It also allows you to remove nasty messages and warn admins through a simple button, rather than having to contact the admin, wait for them to reply and give permission.


      Kudos, I thought the same thing, if one wants to see what someone replied one has to visit their talk page, look for the subject, and check out the timestamps to see it (their reply). I also agree with Forerunner. It's bad enough that one has to open two talk pages, if you're messaging an admin (who probably have loads of archived pages anyway) then you would have to look through their archives for the correct month. 

      I have used the Message Wall and found that it compresses a conversation into one neat statement. If you want to see it then just hit 'show'.

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    • 15px-Symbol neutral vote.svg

      Neutral - No idea if Talk Page was good or not, new here...
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    • (support)

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    • Ghostec41 wrote:
      (support)

      If you support the motion please write Support in between double curly brackets {{}} then and give a reason.

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    • Forerunner
      Forerunner removed this reply because:
      I have no idea what that was....
      16:33, August 6, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • This would be good first, but it needs a Beta test, it would save space, and be easier to use, the Russian Dancing Men approve.

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    • Support Support

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    • I, CEO and Cheif Producer of Kennyman Productions, approve this move, it WOULD save time and effort, basically, an automatic talk page system, with only several tweaks, like the one listed above, if you incorparated more new things, it wouldn't be worth the bugs.

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    • Support Support

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    • (Support Support) Why? Because it would be simpler and would save space and reduce the site's operating cost, BUT, it needs to be beta-tested.

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    • The kennynator wrote: (Support Support) Why? Because it would be simpler and would save space and reduce the site's operating cost, BUT, it needs to be beta-tested.

      Site operation cost isn't an issue as we are hosted by Wikia for free. But tracking conversations, archiving conversations, and notifications will all be a lot neater and easier to use. A beta-test could be possible, however I would need to test whether or not any data would be lost.

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    • Well, Wikia still has to pay for this site to stay running, and it would help them, I have calculated that the change could save an unknown amount of funding by Wikia, and it could help, I still (Support Support) this change, thank you.

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    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Wrong thread.
      13:54, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Wrong thread.
      13:54, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Wrong thread.
      13:54, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Wrong Thread.
      14:10, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Wrong Thread.
      14:10, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Wrong Thread.
      14:10, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • GeneralRecon
      GeneralRecon removed this reply because:
      cause its being bad to me
      14:23, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Please stop going off topic. If you wish to discuss anything other than the proposal, please use another forum.

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    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Wrong Thread.
      14:11, August 8, 2013
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    • T3CHNOCIDE wrote:
      Please stop going off topic. If you wish to discuss anything other than the proposal, please use another forum.

      Yes, I actually agree, thank you.

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    • T3CHNOCIDE
      T3CHNOCIDE removed this reply because:
      Off-topic. Again ...
      14:28, August 8, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • James-B392
      James-B392 removed this reply because:
      Vote ended :3
      13:38, September 14, 2013
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    • James-B392 wrote:
      Strong Oppose Oppose - The talk page system looks much cleaner than the message wall. Strongly oppose this change.

      It's a little late to vote, isn't it? This ended over a month ago.

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    • James-B392
      James-B392 removed this reply because:
      cleaning up
      11:58, March 6, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • So, what was the result?

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    • A FANDOM user
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